Nukes

[wolf_brother]

Why is it that you can't build Tactical Nukes after researching Space Flight even when you have aluminum and uranium? Why do you have to build the Manhattan Project just to be able to build a unit?

Does anyone else think this is just plain stupid?

 

[Yuri2356]

You Poll is kind of odly written.

They way yoour answers are written, it makes "Yes" sound like you're against building the Manhattan Project, and 'No' Sound like you're in favour of it...

Anyway, I find that it is important to have something more in the way fo bulding nuclear weapons than just needting the techs and resources. Otherwise, they'd just be treated like any other unit.

 

[Aegis]

I think that you should have to build it as a Small Wonder, and only those civs who have built it can manufacture nukes.

As for having to build the project in order to build nukes, why not? That's how it had to happen irl, afterall.

 

[vmxa]

It is a sop to the fact that no nukes existed before MP was created by the US. Once the box was open, others managed to get the info, same as in the game. Without the MP and the knowledge the came from it, you cannot build a nuke.

That is how it is and it works for the game. What I would like is the option to disallow the MP and hence nukes. I am not sure I would take that route, but it would be nice to be able to choose.

 

[gmaharriet]

What I would like is the option to disallow the MP and hence nukes. I am not sure I would take that route, but it would be nice to be able to choose.

Great idea, vmxa! Sorta like being able to turn off victory conditions or SGLs.

 

[BasketCase]

I like the way MP works right now. It tempts everybody with the choice to either spend the effort to build MP yourself, or wait for someone else to do it....

 

[Stylesjl]

I think it should be a small wonder

But a great wonder should be built before the small wonder can be built

 

[Yuri2356]

It is a sop to the fact that no nukes existed before MP was created by the US. Once the box was open, others managed to get the info, same as in the game. Without the MP and the knowledge the came from it, you cannot build a nuke.

But even with the knowledge of how to build the weapon, they still need to go through the process of gathering the proper materials and assembling the bombs. Enriched Unranium doesn't grow on Trees.

 

[Stylesjl]

But if you have uranium (weapons worthy) then you need some proper infastructure (small wonder) then nukes can be made (and the manhatten project for the itinal knowlege)

 

[vmxa]

But even with the knowledge of how to build the weapon, they still need to go through the process of gathering the proper materials and assembling the bombs. Enriched Unranium doesn't grow on Trees.

Yes and preventing others from having it is wise considertion. Some maps that is not so easy.

 

[wolf_brother]

It is a sop to the fact that no nukes existed before MP was created by the US. Once the box was open, others managed to get the info, same as in the game. Without the MP and the knowledge the came from it, you cannot build a nuke.

Underlines added by me.

Then MP should be a tech advance, not a world wonder. If we are after all, talking about info as you say, technical drawings and designs and such, then wouldn't that classified as a tech advance? You talk about 'others managed to get the info,' well wouldn't that be another nation buying or stealing the tech advance that leads to nukes from another?

World wonders are after all, things you can see, buildings and such. Even the Internet, the most abstract of all the wonders in civ besides MP, is something you can see. All you need is a computer with an internet connection. You can't see the Manhattan Project though, just what comes from it. Therefore,
"Manhattan Project" should either be a tech advance, separate from space flight (possibly only reachable with both Rocketry and Nuclear Power) in which you could then build Tactical Nukes with. ICBM's would then come after that in another such tech.

Either that, or more lucratively, the MP should be a wonder that instead of allowing players to build Nukes, should instead auto-produce the units every x amount of turns, just like Zeus or the Templar. This would then make it a true wonder that can be seen because you can see what it does, it produces Nukes. After all, the two original atomic weapons developed (Fat Boy and Little Man) were originally produced by the Manhattan Project, not some city in the United States. In civ terms, wouldn't this be a wonder that was producing units?

Either way would work fine for me, I just really hate the current system. It's both

• Unrealistic
• Annoying to have to work with or around/frustrating/ect

 

[Desertsnow]

I'm agreeing that it should be a small wonder; the way it is you can just let someone else build it and the only reason to build it yourself is for the cultural value, and on that note I don't well see the MP as being beneficial to a civilization's culture.

 

[cleverhandle]

I'm in the small wonder camp too. A "rogue state" should at least have to acquire a uranium source and have the minimal infrastructure required to build MP themselves. Otherwise it seems kind of ridiculous.

At the moment, it's just silly. If you prebuild MP and have Space Flight or Satellites long before an AI does you could have a rather large nuclear attack with no retaliation. But if you're that far ahead, you probably could have cleaned up militarily a long time ago, so why wait for nukes?

Also, I really think the game needs a "Fat Boy" kind of nuke that could be loaded onto a bomber WWII-style. Perhaps make it as or even more expensive shield-wise compared to later nukes to discourage massive early nuke blitzes. But having to wait another tech for TacNukes is no fun - you built the Manhattan Project, where are the nukes?

 

[tao]

The nice thing about Manhattan Project being a Great Wonder is that you learn where it is build.

In a recent game, I used "sabotage production" repetitively to prevent another civ from completing it before I won the game.

 

[wolf_brother]

But having to wait another tech for TacNukes is no fun - you built the Manhattan Project, where are the nukes?

If your referring to me, I didn't mean build the MP and then have to research another tech to get nukes; just to clarify. I meant that either MP should be a tech that you have to build to make nukes seperate from space flight. In this opition, there is no wonder. My other suggestion was to make the MP a small wonder that auto-produces the nukes for you, but you're cities can still build them themselves with having to construct the MP.

 

[Dreadnought]

IIRC, there were no tactical nukes or ICBMs after the MP. there were only bombs. So you would need another tech to get them.

EDIT: historically