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[RD] NY v. Trump Foundation

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Zkribbler, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Warlord

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    FINALLY!

    The Trump Foundation has never registered with the state of NY and thus has never been audited.

    In late 2016, NY ordered the foundation to cease operations and to register by December 2016. In December, the Foundation went behind closed doors and was granted, for unknown reasons, an extension of unknown duration. It still has never registered.

    Tax records show this "charitable foundation" has given to Trump portraits of himself and sports memorabilia. It also violated non-profit restrictions by making a campaign contribution to the Florida AG just days before she decided not to join in the lawsuit against Trump University.

    Now, NY is suing.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/new-york-lawsuit-trump-foundation/index.html
    Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up! :thumbsdown:
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    About time. I certainly hope after two years of investigation they have more than the evidence that was handed to them by the New York Times, though I guess they would be required to independently verify and that would take time.
     
  3. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    And this is just what we found out from Eric Trumps charity

     
  4. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    This was one* of my breaking points with Trump. Now, I look at people's charity spending to determine what type of social policy or economics theory they implicitly believe. It can certainly tell you a lot. But I am a strong, strong, strong believer in charity as being one of the necessary vehicles to the future we want.

    People who damage the reputation of charities drive me bonkers. Every stupid headline like this ratchets downwards people's willingness to just cut a damn cheque for an important thing that needs doing.

    *Actually, I have a select list.
     
  5. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    It's simple. Never give money to the vanity charity of some rich *******. If you start a charity and name it after yourself you've already perverted the whole notion of charity.

    Moderator Action: Please do not use the term 'a-hole' without censoring it, as the full version is on the auto-censor list. ~ Arakhor
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2018
    Berzerker likes this.
  6. rah

    rah Chieftain Supporter

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    Like the *cough* *cough* Clinton Foundation. ;)
     
  7. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Yes, exactly. Or the Gates Foundation, or whatever. Do you really trust the vision of these people to properly guide a charitable endeavor? I don't. Give to Doctors Without Borders instead, or any other of the hundreds of other worthy charities that do similar work.
     
  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Or the Gates Foundation

    This is a perceptive observation. The Clinton and Gates Foundations etc. have all the standard problems of the NGO-industrial complex. The Trump Foundation is, like, three levels beneath that.
     
  9. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    Billy Gates seems to care about what he's doing, but he's more of an exception.
    I guess it would go
    Gates Foundation
    -
    -
    Clinton Foundation
    -
    -
    -
    ---666 Levels down
    -Trump Foundation
     
    Silurian and El_Machinae like this.
  10. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    You know what these foundations are for, at their core? It's so rich people can pretend they are philanthropic, while what they are really doing is taking credit for spending other people's money on charity.

    I mean yeah, the Trump Foundation and those of his children are egregiously awful, because of course they are. Gates and Clinton Foundations at least engage in actual charity work. But that is not their main purpose, which means they are not being run with actual charity as their chief goal. It is only incidental to the real work they are engaged in - making their namesakes look good and feel good about themselves.

    You know what they should do with their money? Start buying politicians. It's not even that expensive, and it could do a world of good. But that might make them look bad with the cocktail party set, so they don't do it.
     
  11. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Bill Gates should start arming and funding revolutionaries in the red states :lol:
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I'll disagree. Feel free to donate to any charity, just vet it first to see if it's doing what needs doing. Attaching a name also adds star power. You have to look at their books.

    If they're not doing it efficiently enough, spend the same dollar doing it more efficiently. An incredible number of Charities are generating real compounding returns, which means the dollar donated today is more valuable than the dollar donated tomorrow.

    Charity donations need to be consistent, sustainable, and rise with your income or wealth. Charity is how you express your beliefs, so make sure they are wise and good.

    Whataboutism
     
  13. rah

    rah Chieftain Supporter

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    No, a joke.
    And for the record, I have only ever voted for one of them for president in my life, and it happened not in 2016 but 20 years earlier. ;)
     
    El_Machinae likes this.
  14. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    no, an example of a foundation named after someone

    pointing at GOP hypocrisy - good
    pointing at Democrat hypocrisy - whataboutism
     
    El_Machinae likes this.
  15. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I had misunderstood, my apologies. The Trump Foundation is one of the things that makes my eyes see red.

    I'm going to right out say that under every metric that I can think of, the Clinton Foundation is superior to the Trump Foundation as a charity. Even trying to equate the two at all is entirely missing the point.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the Clinton Foundation was used inappropriately because of Hillary's ambitions. People donated to them in order to increase political favor. But it is also true that there is a concerted effort to spend that money somewhat wisely on the stated ambitions of the foundation. It will never be perfectly spent, that's impossible. And there is rot in every organization. There are rampant criticisms available that will improve the outcomes of the foundation.
     
  16. rah

    rah Chieftain Supporter

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    I'll concede that. I also wouldn't give Gates much abuse either. That foundation has done a lot of good things and a little ego stroking is a small price to pay.
     
  17. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Well it depends what you want your charity dollars to do. Doctors without Borders is useful if I want to benefit poor people now, but not useful if I want to benefit wealthy me in fifty years.
     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    In one direction I can agree completely with this, but from the other direction...

    The celebrity name can account for a significant fraction of donations. Yes, it is unfortunate that what should have been the Bill Clinton Foundation, playing on his notoriety as an ex-president to raise enormous amounts of money that was mostly spent well, turned out to be the Clinton Foundation connected to a current secretary of state with even greater political aspirations...but they'd never have raised as much money had they been the 'let's raise some money for a good cause foundation.'

    An even better example is Newman's Own. All profits go to charity, which is great. The salad dressing itself is...okay. But Paul Newman's name and face on the bottle is what makes it sell, which makes the profits, which support the charity. I wouldn't say that naming it after himself was an ego thing.
     
  19. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

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    Thanks for the like, I wasn't exactly polite :(

    I think you guys might have changed my mind, I was with mh on the charity ID - Jesus warned against advertising your virtue - but the name probably would help with donations and volunteers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  20. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I understand what you're saying, but this is assuming that wealthy you in the future will not be benefiting from uplifting the poor now.

    The major deficit that I will be suffering as I age will be age-related degeneration of the type that is experienced in wealthy society. The interventions that I will be wanting invented are more likely to exist if there is a larger, wealthier customer base pursuing them. And a larger, wealthier supplier base trying to provide them.

    Actually, this is an area I find interesting about the Gates Foundation and Warren Buffett. It is somewhat easy to generate an approximation of compounding returns that result from charity spending. In other words, preventing 100 malaria cases this year is more valuable than preventing 100 malaria cases next year.

    Bill is spending his money in real time, spending it on projects that he deems to be cost-effective in amounts that he deems useful. All of this spending is generating some type of compounding benefits when it comes to Poverty reduction overall.

    Warren Buffett believes in the cause, and ostensibly could give his promised portion of his wealth today. That wealth could then be spent in order to generate compounding returns.

    However, Warren Buffett implicitly believes that the compounding returns he earns on his wealth is higher than if he donated it today. For that reason, he is waiting until he is dead before he distributes the wealth he intends to distribute.

    He seems to believe that more wealth can be captured through his market operations than can be generated through targeted charity spending.

    It's an implicit bias that I don't happen to share. I absolutely believe in the concept of compounding returns to savings, in that I should take advantage of those in order to get to the Future that I want. But I also believe that there are targeted spendings that I can do on charity that will generate returns greater than what I can do with that same dollar, in the market, even if I intend to eventually donate that portion of my wealth.
     
    Hrothbern likes this.

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