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[BTS] NZ's Shadow Game - Immortal Zulu

I think the best suggestion was scout 2sw first, if there are pigs or corn etc settling 2w could become great.
Unfortunately not :-(

Zulu4.png
 
It's an approximation, but in this trade off, at T50, we're basically looking at :
- Writing for SIP vs
- Pottery and +1 settler for gold.

I think the intricate way to look at it would be to determine whether or not SIP has actually hammers to spare on infrastructure (Granaries) pre-T50 to jump start its development.
If it doesn't, then gold should develop ahead as turns go.

I don't believe there's a clear tech target in the Classical Era but another way to look at it would be to ask whether or not the earlier Writing actually impacts that date.

Generally speaking, I am curious as to how SIP should manage settler production and working the gold vs growing. Is it a thing to grow to 4 before working the gold mine and starting settler/worker duty ? Or does that all happen at size 3 ?
Having an improved gold probably comes with nifty tricks, here.
 
Still a debate about potential resource to SE which could be lost by SOG. Is it worth delaying settling to check it out first? Three options: move settler SE to check, SIP without losing a turn, move settler to gold.
 
We don't know at this stage whether close by land will be contested.
SOG provides more safety on this front. Doesn't it?
I would think so, too. I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
It is Pangaea but we seem to have open land. I would hope to have city locations. If we were boxed in to 3 cities and forced into a Construction rush, then the value of the earlier Writing would seem evident to me. Is this the case ?
Moreover, working the gold poses management questions, as far as how and when to grow the capital. And then, in the event where we would want to rush some military tech (be it Construction or HBR), it would not be able to contribute as much as gold city. In contrast, just settling on the gold and forgetting about the tile is simple (not the best argument) :mischief: Just working some extra tiles and not having to bother, I think could work just as well commerce wise (+ way better production).

This is offhand : if SIP could get 3 granaries 5 turns earlier than SOG... yes, we've got a discussion. But if SIP is tied up building settlers/workers during that time, then the tech advantage is meaningless and will eventually recede.
It sure is a bummer for EXP leader Shaka to open some cows when all he wants is Pottery + Bronze. The earliest granaries are huge.

(No sarcasm) loving the pace of this thread. Three days, three pages of comments, one scout move, zero settling.
Thank god Pigswill moderated us or we might have gone wild :lol:
 
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My two pennies: I would never consider settle on gold there, especially when you have to spend a whole move for it.
Yes, may be you don't have a lot of food to work on gold all the time, but even working on it half of the time will give you more money then just settling on it.
First city typically spend a lot of time building worker/settlers, and this cell - 3h 8g - is extremely good during that time, at least not worse than any other cell.

Also, there is a probability that you'll be able to settle a second city in 2 two tiles to the north, that could have a lot of food and could work at this gold tile as well.
Also, I like floodplains cells, and SIP looks like increase chance that you will get several more floodplains in 1-st city vicinity.

But I am not a strong player, so my advice should be read with a healthy skepticism.
 
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I'm leaning towards settling on gold not least because it's something I would never normally do so it's going to boost my learning experience to play very differently.
No more food revealed, my plan is to work the tile 1N to get a Worker out in 10 turns and have AH ready by the time he arrives at the cow (not selecting AH until t5). Scout, not sure but maybe 1SW and then pause.

Comments?
Zulu6.png
 
Scout moves - I think west is mostly uninteresting and east is interesting due to river. Since there is a possibility that you want to go settler starting T10 perhaps you are in a bit of a rush to scout the most interesting area.

Since you go AH first the tech discount is for 2nd tech (mining?). In general I try to meet as many AI as possible as fast as possible especially starting with a scout but I think here the priorities are different.
 
Yeah, scout can move 2S1E this turn then up the river.
What kind of second city are we looking at?
 
What kind of second city are we looking at?
The 2nd city priority should be to assist Ulundi in worker/settler production. So, we're mostly looking for the best nearby food. Forest and riverside would be welcome bonuses. It would also be nice to share a couple of cottageable tiles.
Since there is a possibility that you want to go settler starting T10
I would not do that :cry::cry::cry: I think it's very dubious to have improved tiles in Ulundi that are not being worked. The more production we want from Ulundi, the higher the size it should grow. I certainly would want more than just the first settler. I think size 3 is perfectly fine from what we see.
It also turns out straight ugly to stagnate Ulundi at size 1 if/when horses/copper are revealed somewhere 2N. Now that would be a massive delay towards working those tiles (whereas growing to 3 first....).

You make a very good point about AH being researched first, though, and meeting neighbours extra fast not being a huge issue.
In this case, Soundjata's scouting pattern looks perfectly fine to me. Especially if we have a lake and not coast SE of the capital. It's probably the fastest and also very precise, as far as city locations go.
Otherwise, I'd probably have started SW, SW with the scout. Hop onto the hill and then circle clockwise. Generally speaking, straight south is the direction where an AI is most unlikely to be and, if there is one, it will find Player extremely fast. I'd have left the few tiles S of the cap to scout with the warrior that comes with size 3 settler. (Because size 1 settler also comes without a warrior, for what it's worth...)
 
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It's not ugly it's optimal :D After stagnating on a settler, Ulundi can grow on FP farms.

I recommend settler size 1 only if a stellar site is found for city 2 :)
 
I recommend settler size 1 only if a stellar site is found for city 2 :)
Wet corn/wheat/rice or pigs adjacent to the plains hill would make me seriously consider a very fast 2nd city.

It's not ugly it's optimal
Yeah, it can be. 2nd city provides an extra city center. 2:food:2:hammers: is a lot of extra umpf (same as an extra 4:food:2:hammers:-tile).
 
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This also means if you're going AH you don't benefit from waiting five turns and can start it straight away.
 
He could also mean you get a 20% discount on AH as you likely have hunting. You get 20% off for each prerequisite tech.
 
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