[GS] O Canada

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not very familiar with Canadian history, but in a game that contains both England and Russia, having Canada as the civ that cares about railways would seem odd. Obviously it wouldn't be associated with Eleanor as the new leader, but they could conceivably adjust the existing abilities for either England or Russia to care about railways.

Finally, England, the U.S., and Russia are already in the game. Maybe no civ gets special railway mechanics. Or maybe they tie it to one of the other civs, somehow. But if Firaxis is looking for someone to tie special railway mechanics to, there's a lot of Canadian history that could be drawn on to build a story around.

I don't know if any Civ is going to specifically get any railroad mechanics explicitly but I expect both England and Russia to have some of their mechanics working in with railroads. England's new UA has the ability to accumulate coal faster, which presumably might have something to do with railroads.
As for Russia I believe that railroads will act like industrial era traders and could go in hand with Peter's ability about sending trade routes to other Civs. Then there's his achievement Trans Siberian Railroad.
As for America I'm honestly predicting Teddy might get something towards canals.

 

[Joketa]

The opposite? No, sure not, and as a non-Canadian, I wouldn't say that Canada is famous for having clean energy at all, at least around here. And looking up CO2 per capita shows that it isn't one of the cleanest countries in that respect. Someone above mentioned that it would make more sense to look at CO2 per area, but I don't think it makes much sense.

It's not about clean energy. It's about conservation. When you think of it in those terms then CO2 per area makes much more sense than CO2 per capita. There are more areas of land in Canada where there are zero man-made CO2 emissions than most other countries have land. That's real conservation. Canada contributes 1.5% of the world's fossil fuel CO2, but covers 6.1% of the earth's landmass. Indonesia by contrast contributes 1.4% of the world's fossil fuels while occupying 1.2% of the world's landmass. That's about equal the emissions with Indonesia taking up far less space, meaning far less protected nature to balance off human impact. If you look at emissions per capita - as most people favor - Canada is at 15.5% and Indonesia is at 2%. Indonesia is much better per capita. However, this is a statistic that will always favor high population density. Great if you're a city state like Singapore, but how much natural area does Singapore conserve? This is why it's a dubious statistic. Yes, it measures personal responsibility, but in a very incomplete way. It is very difficult to shepherd a large area and be efficient in individual use. Buying "green" still creates an infinitely larger carbon footprint than buying nothing. Protecting huge swathes of natural land is akin to buying nothing. All the windmills in the world won't counter that. Therefore, I hope Canada does get a conservationist type ability.

 

[Sostratus]

Great if you're a city state like Singapore, but how much natural area does Singapore conserve? This is why it's a dubious statistic.

What?! I thought we would just leave out all the land that supports them!
One famous example is NYC's huge population density - ~28k per sq mile - but of course, just the watershed area to feed the city pipes covers 2000 sq miles, plus the ~20,000 sq mi of farmland to feed them and keep the burgers flowing to Shake Shack. Moo!
Even in civ terms, a citizen takes 2 food, no matter where they are!

Regardless, Canada is definitely known for their natural resources. There's a lot of ways to include that but something around bonus resources and features (especially not chopping them) would be a really neat angle. At least from my side of the border, they are definitely perceived as the most environmentally friendly nation of N America. If it were up to the USA, I assure you there would be even more pipelines, pumpjacks, ore shipments, and lumberyards in the 51st state than there are now.

The meek shall inherit the earth- but not its mineral rights!!

 

[DWilson]

At least from my side of the border, they are definitely perceived as the most environmentally friendly nation of N America.

That's not really saying much if you're only talking about Canada, the US, and Mexico. But, then again, I don't know if one of the Caribbean Islands or central American countries of North America are known for being environmentally friendly. (I tend to think the best of Costa Rica, how are they?)

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Canada's economy has long been based on resource extraction: furs, fish, lumber, mining, oil, electricity (from hydro power), etc. Those resources are then exported to other countries. How environmentally friendly can you be when your jobs are based on digging up coal and oil to send to other countries for them to burn?

To make it more challenging, politically, the extractive industries aren't evenly spread across the country. The oil industry, for example, is concentrated in Alberta.

The federal government has required each province to implement a carbon tax regime, or it will apply it's own. That's going over like a lead balloon in certain jurisdictions that are dependent on the export of oil and coal.

Canada's a signatory to the Paris Accord. The current federal government seems serious about meeting those commitments. The opposition to this is also strong and based primarily on the relative economic disadvantage that will put our industries relative to the U.S., which has withdrawn from the accord. The next change in government will likely be a result of fear that continuing to pursue carbon controls when our biggest trading partner isn't will be economic suicide.

Canada's urban population, whose work is primarily in the service industries, are generally supportive of climate change policies. Carrots and sticks are being applied to businesses to adopt best practices with respect to long term sustainability. Canada's always going to appear high in the list of carbon producers, however, as long as our economy has a higher percentage than other countries allocated to those extractive industries that are the most intensive carbon producers.

 

[DWilson]

On the other hand, sticking to the Accord is definitely winning you diplomatic points over us, and you can provide several benefits at similar value compared to Americans. If your current government can negotiate favorable trade deals and busineas opportunities due to this, it would likely more than pay off long term.

 

[Sostratus]

Canada's urban population, whose work is primarily in the service industries, are generally supportive of climate change policies.

The oil industry, for example, is concentrated in Alberta.

I am not canadian, although I know many and have been there often; but just like the US, you've got that issue where some provinces think restricting resource extraction is worth the climate trade off because, yeah, maybe it's a little more you pay at the pump and on shipping, but the environment is pretty important too, right? And other provinces (like 'berta, in the oil example) feel quite differently- because no oil means no money for schools etc. And it funds those equalization payments, so the Quebecois can also go to school. And then the population supermajority lives where the oil isn't, so they feel their voice isn't getting heard.

Until the maple syrup engine is perfected: then there can be peace...

That's not really saying much if you're only talking about Canada, the US, and Mexico.

Well, in civ terms, the big difference is canada would have about 5 forest tiles for every farm tile. (And a bunch of snow tiles.) That's... pretty aggressive. Regardless of their industry, they have monstrous forests and natural areas compared to their development. Kind of like how brazil is the civ jungle country but its not like Rio is a bunch of treehouses.

If Canada is one of the last First Looks I'm gonna go insane, I need to know, Firaxis!

 

[Pietato]

That's not really saying much if you're only talking about Canada, the US, and Mexico. But, then again, I don't know if one of the Caribbean Islands or central American countries of North America are known for being environmentally friendly. (I tend to think the best of Costa Rica, how are they?)

Pretty sure Mexico is better than Canada anyway...

 

[Victoria]

England has always been essentially synonymous with the UK/Britain in Civ games

Well, England was primarily English but took what scots, welsh and irish it could to bolster its essentially English designed troops. To say that Britain is 25% England, 25% Welsh, 25% Scottish and 25% irish would be a travesty.

WRT Canada Polluting.... really?... is it not more the corporations rather than the countries? And it's all very hard to judge with the likes of America's Duponts C8 fiasco poisoning the whole planet?... and its GenX replacement continuing to do so to this day?

The Lumberjack song for me was severely replaced by Southparks farting Canadians and I struggle with any other UU in my mind currently ... sorry

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

@Leyrann

Moved my post about Canada here in case you wanted to respond.

Ah the old Canada debate!

In my opinion they deserve their place: a top 10 global economy and a founding member of most major international intergovernmental organisations with a distinct and instantly recognisable culture. They're unlikely to win a science victory any time soon but they're in the hunt for a cultural or diplomatic victory.

Whether they deserve a place more than some other missing civilizations is irrelevant to me since there is no objective scale by which to compare.

 

[PhilBowles]

Well, England was primarily English but took what scots, welsh and irish it could to bolster its essentially English designed troops. To say that Britain is 25% England, 25% Welsh, 25% Scottish and 25% irish would be a travesty.

England is geographically two-thirds of Great Britain and demographically more than 90% of the UK population (and Wales, historically, has been an English province since the 13th Century. Modern sensibilities and cultural differences have led to it rather arbitrarily being considered a distinct 'nation', but for most of unified English history it's been as much a part of England as Cornwall). I'm not sure where the persistent notion that the UK is a fundamentally different entity thanks (mostly) to 5 million Scots comes in. Scotland's relevance to the modern country is somewhat disproportionate due to the significance of Glasgow in particular, and a large number of notable Scots were involved in the imperial project, but that doesn't stop it from being an essentially English - and indisputably English-led - enterprise.

 

[DeutschDachs]

Well I really hope we get a 3rd and possibly 4th expansion then.

I hope for Civ VII Canada and Australia and the like don't become regulars over veterans like Babylon or Portugal because they're easier to market

 

[Victoria]

I'll just be glad to see the back of Toronto. Fallen from grace, its about time something else took it's place.

 

[Xandinho]

Well I really hope we get a 3rd and possibly 4th expansion then.

I hope for Civ VII Canada and Australia and the like don't become regulars over veterans like Babylon or Portugal because they're easier to market

Obviously, civs like Babylon, Portugal and some others like Maya and Ethiopia should be regular in all civs editions, but the inclusion of Canada and Australia does not exclude them. Although I have preference for ancient and medieval civs, I think the game has room for everyone. I think we'll have a third expansion that will add all the missing favorite civs.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In my opinion they deserve their place: a top 10 global economy and a founding member of most major international intergovernmental organisations with a distinct and instantly recognisable culture. They're unlikely to win a science victory any time soon but they're in the hunt for a cultural or diplomatic victory.

Whether they deserve a place more than some other missing civilizations is irrelevant to me since there is no objective scale by which to compare.

Honestly all this talk about Canada is actually getting more excited for their inevitable conclusion.
The more you think about it, Canada does have way more history to go off than many other modern nations if you think back to the French coming over in the 1600s and should have warranted more inclusion than Australia, but due to geographical location didn't. The above statement helps as well today.
Seeing the prospect of Canada getting bonuses from when they were establishing trading posts along the wilderness has me excited for some reason. Maybe because it's one part of history that was regularly taught to me in my American History classes.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I just thought about it: why the UI of Canada wouldn't be a unique trade post improvment? Let me explain: builders could build some sort of fort anywhere (even in the wilderness and outside its territory) that could act like a trading post, ie if you have a city more than 15 tiles from your nearest city, you just build it mid-way and tadaa! You can send a trade route to them. It would easily represent the great area covered by merchants/fur traders/explorers of Canada. No? And it could be a nice alternative to the hockey stadium (I have to admit that I don't like that idea, but I'm aware it's arbitrary)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I just thought about it: why the UI of Canada wouldn't be a unique trade post improvment? Let me explain: builders could build some sort of fort anywhere (even in the wilderness and outside its territory) that could act like a trading post, ie if you have a city more than 15 tiles from your nearest city, you just build it mid-way and tadaa! You can send a trade route to them. It would easily represent the great area covered by merchants/fur traders/explorers of Canada. No? And it could be a nice alternative to the hockey stadium (I have to admit that I don't like that idea, but I'm aware it's arbitrary)

Since a trading post is already something in the game, what would it be called? I can see this more being tied into a UA called the Hudson Bay Company combining different abilities of trade routes, camps, and forts which already exist in the game.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I am not canadian, although I know many and have been there often; but just like the US, you've got that issue where some provinces think restricting resource extraction is worth the climate trade off because, yeah, maybe it's a little more you pay at the pump and on shipping, but the environment is pretty important too, right? And other provinces (like 'berta, in the oil example) feel quite differently- because no oil means no money for schools etc. And it funds those equalization payments, so the Quebecois can also go to school. And then the population supermajority lives where the oil isn't, so they feel their voice isn't getting heard.

To be honest, I'd say the median Canadian, regardless of their province, holds the following views:
(a) we should be doing something about climate change;
(b) I'm willing to pay a little bit more for the things I buy as a result of climate change policies; and,
(c) I'm not willing to lose my job for climate change.

Any individual is going to deviate from this, but it's a reasonable estimate of the average voter.

I'll just be glad to see the back of Toronto.

You'll fit in well in Canada!

Since a trading post is already something in the game, what would it be called? I can see this more being tied into a UA called the Hudson Bay Company combining different abilities of trade routes, camps, and forts which already exist in the game.

Tying it to Hudson's Bay would be ideal, but problematic as the Hudson's Bay Company is still going. Founded in 1670, you can buy shares of the company on the Toronto Stock Exchange (symbol HBC). Might make a good family heirloom if you think it's got another 350 years ahead of it.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Tying it to Hudson's Bay would be ideal, but problematic as the Hudson's Bay Company is still going. Founded in 1670, you can buy shares of the company on the Toronto Stock Exchange (symbol HBC). Might make a good family heirloom if you think it's got another 350 years ahead of it.

Do you mean the Hudson Bay Company is trademarked and couldn't make it in due to legal purposes?
Do they know that Poundmaker has one of their jackets?

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Since a trading post is already something in the game, what would it be called? I can see this more being tied into a UA called the Hudson Bay Company combining different abilities of trade routes, camps, and forts which already exist in the game.

Well, after doing a 5 min research we could call it the Fur Trading Fort. it will be the one combining camps, forts and trading post abilities in one single improvment. I know some people could say that juste blending abilities together is not an improvment, but for my point of view it's perfect: you could shape your space mor eefficiently and trade further while exploiting luxury resources. Three to one! And beside it let UA be more flavourful (something about resources, energy or railroad for the CUA, diplomacy for LUA)