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[GS] O Canada

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Giskler, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

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    It's almost as though this is a franchise where most previous civilizations were there for a good reason and the nature of world history makes things rather inflexible.

    Civ VI already has added quite a lot of new civilizations. But the more it stretches out in favor of new civilizations, the higher up the totem pole you need to go with your cuts. Sure, Canada might be an inevitability. But I for one will be greatly displeased if we lose Babylon or the Maya for them, never mind the many other great civilizations that are at risk like Assyria, Ethiopia, Portugal, Byzantium, and Carthage. There's a certain point when you really need to stop and realize that opportunity cost means you don't have room for the Republic of Texas without cutting something that would make this game an embarrassment relative to previous games, and unless a third expansion is in the cards, this game clearly never realized it.

    Even casual players make fun of this game's civilization choices, and releasing Canada at this time would be the ultimate way to prove them right.
     
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  2. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Eh. I thought "Scotland" was a bad choice too but that team is super fun to play.

    I hope that the developers watched Black Robe to create a badass Skirmisher/Missionary unit.
     
  3. Xefjord

    Xefjord Prince

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    Gonna be completely honest. Maybe it is just because I have never had a lot of interest in the middle east to begin with, but of all the "staple" civs people always claim to want to see back, I always feel very unexcited for Babylon. I am interested in Canada (Although I would much rather have Vietnam), I can understand the interest in Portugal and Mayans. But if not for Civ: I would have no idea who the Babylonians even were. They have never been talked about in any of the history classes I have had, and their reign seems to have had very little impact on any of the parts of the world I am interested in.I won't say they had a "Short" reign per say. But whenever your reign is really far back in history, it is much more easily forgotten. Vietnam would be much more interesting to me because not only does it also have thousands of years of history, it is still relevant in the present day and I can think of lots of impacts it had in areas I am interested in.

    But uh... Canada is cool too I guess.
     
  4. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    On the one hand, sometimes using fresh civs can give you a little game design flexibility to do really cool stuff. Indonesia is relatively new to the series, and they were able to morph them into a faction that does island empires well. Harder to fill niche with the Old guard.

    OTOH, the reason we use famous civs is so that players get a bunch of free worldbuilding when they play the game. Aztec being bloodthirsty, slave taking warmongers who will rush you is basically a pop history meme, but it's a ton of free storytelling that players intuit when you play the game. It's difficult with these lesser known civs because you have to somehow sell a quasi-memetic representation of them. Korea is a science super powerhouse. Brazil is jungles and happiness and culture. Scotland has a long history and is well known enough - even if it's just Highlander and Braveheart and bagpipes- that they can work with it. Do you literally see what they did there with highlanders and bagpipes

    But then you get to a georgia, or a mapuche, and you lose the free storytelling, and people really get ticked about that because they immediately think of all the left out civs who do have that. So while I'd prefer byzantium over canada, I mostly hesitate because Canada is risky. If they don't pull it off they will get hate. Same story with female leaders picked for diversity. You gotta sell those characters much harder because I know what caesar and napoleon do. I don't know CdMedici and she's billed as the mysterious spy lady. You can't give me an unknown and then have them be mysterious. Players like games where "I was neighbored with Trajan and we were both fighting Victoria, but then Montezuma came in and barely survived- it was crazy!!" and not " I had a game with NPC 1,2 and 3. After 300 turns I won via the game mechanics."
     
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  5. qadams

    qadams Bohemian

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    I like Canada, and I love their national anthem (re the topic title). As for a civilization ability, how about something involving loyalty? Like maybe they lose zero loyalty for settling a city very close to another civ. That would be pretty strong and it would match their historical reality.
     
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  6. Ivan Hunger

    Ivan Hunger King

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    That doesn't seem to be a problem for other 4X games, which usually have completely made-up factions, so I'm not sure why Civ would be held to a higher standard in that regard.
     
  7. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    Wait I'm confused -- Canada wasn't on the list of leaked leaders...?
     
  8. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    You don't see why a history game without self-done world building would have issue when compared to games that do actually require world building? Like, the whole reason Civ is so successful is because the world is already there. Taking that away with unknown and relatively obscure civs is of course going to get pushback, especially when there are civs with that history readily available

    They were in the second leak which correctly identified the leader of Hungary
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2018
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  9. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Civ also has no plot or backstory narrated into the games. It's not like many 4x games create factions and then don't have resources on who those people are or what they stand for etc. The perfect example of this is Civ:Beyond earth. They made up factions but intentionally didn't give a backstory - because they thought players needed space to imagine for themselves, just like a mainline civ game. That ended horribly. They said the same thing for everyone: "This earth Geographic region, the bad thing happens [which we intentionally won't tell you about,] to cope, they launch a spaceship. Here are their bonuses." The game, mechanically, was pretty similar to BNW. It had some innovative features eventually like aquatic cities, and the orbital layer. It was literally civ in space but people seemed to not get into it- and iirc the chief complaint was the factions.
     
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  10. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Deity

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    Agreed

    ...or you can have three different leaders each representing a famous Italian city-state, and then go from there.

    By the way... whatever happened to Genoa? I know it was in one of the base game files, whiles lead to a lot of speculation that Italy might be a civ in the game.
     
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  11. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    It's still there along with the Haida in R&F being unused without leaders.
    Then there is the Golden Horde and Napoleon Scenario as well.
     
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  12. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Also, new Canadian cities should get more Loyalty from being far away from any other Canadian cities, rather than being close to them.

    Have you seen how far apart we separate our cities?
     
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  13. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    I'm so sorry but would you mind copy pasting the second leak? I wasn't aware of the second one and I can't seem to find it.
     
  14. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Off the top of my head:
    Matthias Corvinus for Hungary
    Kupe for Maori
    Mansa Musa for Mali
    Pachacuti for Inca
    Suleiman for Ottomans
    Dido for Phoenicia
    Wilfred Laurier for Canada
    Kristina for Sweden
    Alt leader is Eleanor for England/France
     
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  15. Ivan Hunger

    Ivan Hunger King

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    Would a potential solution be to give each civ a "faction quest", a series of challenges specific to that civ, that grant a powerful reward if completed? That's one way other 4X games establish identity for their factions, and it seems like it could partially alleviate the problem you're talking about.
     
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  16. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    Wilfrid Laurier is the face on our 5 dollar bills! Good leader choice!

    For further French-Canadian representation, you could make Laurier say Québécois swear words when he declares war, I'll find it hilarious

    Or at World Congress, bring back the International Space Station project, so that Laurier can proudly declare that the country has completed the Canadian bra
    (another PM's mistake, he confused with the French word "bras" which means arm, and he said that Canada made a female undergarment instead)
     
  17. clapyourhands

    clapyourhands Prince

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    Sounds like you're talking about Sukritact's Events and Decisions mod for Civ V, or the Historical Victory for Civ IV RnF.
     
  18. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Deity

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  19. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    When canadian cities build the ISS project, they could display as building the Canadarm instead.
    There are so many ways they could do a Canada civ, I'm truly on my toes down here in Minnesota wondering just what those devs will do!
     
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  20. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    Lol... Ah, Jean Chretien was sooo funny sometimes ;-)

    Being myself on the Franco side of the Canadian Heritage, I do hope that they will build the CIV to showcase both sides of the language tradition... I think officially adopted
    bilingualism is a major trait of our culture.

    And I firmly believe that this civ will be diplomacy oriented.

    I'm very happy to see Canada join this game, no matter what many people are saying here. We may be from colonial times, but we are certainly NOT a minor country, so...
     
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