OB03 - The Power of Four

[Ozbenno]

Game: Vanilla
Leader: Saladin
Opponents: Random
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Random
Size: Standard
Speed: Normal
Victory: All Enabled

Variant rules:

Funnily enough there are four

• Can only found 4 cities and capture 4 cities
• Can only change civics 4 times (changing multiple civics in one instance counts as 1)
• Can only use 4 Great People (must give the rest away to our worst enemy we're not at war with)
• Can only build 4 Wonders (World or National)

SG rules:

• 24 hours got it, 48 hours to report!
• SGs are meant to be fun, so have fun. We've all had a few moves (me more than most), so don't stress about it, make them entertaining.
• Discussion (on and off topic) is highly encouraged.

Roster

Ozbenno
Ralph Jackson
Conroe
Kodii
mice
Mighty Dwaarf

 

[Ozbenno]

OK, we need to sort out a few things before we start and clarify (or change) some of the rules.

Firstly, Vanilla or Warlords. I'm unsure if everyone has Warlords (or even Vanilla for that matter), so when you check in let us know.

Secondly, leader. A (somewhat sadistic ) suggestion was made to go Philosophical/Spiritual, which would be Saladin/Gandhi (Vanilla/Warlords), as these are possibly the least useful traits given the restrictions. It really tickles my fancy but don't want to make it too hard. Any comments?

Thirdly, a clarification (or change) to the first rule. I deliberately stated it as "found 4 cities", to allow hostile take-overs of enemy cities. If we wanted to make it really hard we could make it "own 4 cities" instead. If we go down this path then rule 4 is useless and would need to be changed, maybe to 4 wonders (although you probably wouldn't build 4 wonders at Monarch as with 4 cities, no National wonders). Thoughts?

OK, I think that's it. If you've got any thoughts on the above or any questions, we'll get it all sorted out before I roll up a start.

 

[mice]

Thirdly, a clarification (or change) to the first rule. I deliberately stated it as "found 4 cities", to allow hostile take-overs of enemy cities. If we wanted to make it really hard we could make it "own 4 cities" instead. If we go down this path then rule 4 is useless and would need to be changed, maybe to 4 wonders (although you probably wouldn't build 4 wonders at Monarch as with 4 cities, no National wonders). Thoughts?

When I first heard about the thread I thought it was only own 4 cities. It's a good one I think. It leads to razing to cripple which can be fun. Random map could make that easy or hard, interesting.
In that case, only declare 4 times will be hard. 4 wonders sounds good.

Edit, both WL or Vanilla for me too.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Hi Guys,

I can do either Warlords or Vanilla, not fussed between the two.

As the sadistic perpetrator of the Philosophical/Spiritual trait I am 100% behind that idea.

I was under the found 4 cities, ok to capture more impression but if people want to change to the alternative I am fine with that just need to be clear before we start.

MD

 

[TheLastOne36]

i'll join but i can only handle vanilla. And your roster is pretty big aswell. so i understand if you don't want an extra person.

 

[Ozbenno]

I want to keep the roster at 6 for now, TheLastOne36, but if anyone drops out...

I still think that it would be too difficult with only owning 4 cities but willing to go down that path if consensus says. Maybe founding 4 and taking 4.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ok thanks for your time. Also your Strategy with 4 cities looks like it will work.

i mean take a look at this walk through: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=231222

That's only with 2. So 4 would be better?

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

I still think that it would be too difficult with only owning 4 cities but willing to go down that path if consensus says. Maybe founding 4 and taking 4.

Sounds like a fair compromise, could also keep the four wonders thing.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Ok Checking in

1. Happy with Vanilla or Warlords
2. I like the masochistic leader choice from Might Dwaarf but think it should be balanced with the found 4 capture 4 cities rule.
3. No strong feelings re wonders

Request

I am on holiday 22nd July to 5th August inclusive so can I get a set in straight after Ozbenno this week as I may be out of the pocket on hols (hopefully not) so wont miss out on the first turncycle.

Cheers

Ralph

 

[pholkhero]

why not found 4 and TAKE 4 from FOUR other civs!!

also, does "using Great People" mean golden ages as well? That is, can you only trigger one GA (for 2 GP 'uses) the whole game if you want to use your GPs that way?

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

I would say a golden age uses 2 gp out of quota of four, not being a fan of golden ages in Civ4 this wont be a problem to me.

 

[mice]

I like; found 4 ,conquer 4 too.

Philo sounds fun.

Max 4 National wonders, although that's not too difficult. Oxford, Heroic, Wall street, IW, not National Epic. You could just forget about a wonder rule.

 

[Ozbenno]

OK, I think found 4, capture 4 is a winner, might leave off the pholk amendment though

This means a change in rule 4 to maximum 4 wonders (including National). I think that's all right as given the change to rule 1, a peaceful win is the most likely (diplo, culture or space) so Great Library, Pyramids, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Taj Mahal would all be doable (and potentially useful) on Monarch as well as Heroic Epic (National not so useful), Oxford, Wall St etc.

I'll change the first post at some stage soon.

Was thinking about a Golden Age as well, I'd say this counts as 1 use but I never use them so doesn't really matter.

Ralph, I'll bump you up one in the roster.

 

[r_rolo1]

lurkers comment

4 founded cities + 4 captured ones = 8 , 1 less than the 9 needed for 3 cathedrals of each religion. That can be a handicap to a cultural win.

And if you need me for filling a vacancy, I'll be warming the bench

 

[Kodii]

I'm alive!

I have both Warlords and Vanilla. Though I personally prefer Vanilla, either of the two is perfectly fine with me.

I am also fine with a Phi/Spi leader.

As for the rules, I was also under the impression that it was to own four cities, but the amendment of founding four and capturing four, as well as the addition of four wonders is a great for the additional challenge.

 

[Conroe]

Reporting for duty ...

I do not have Warlords, so my preference would be for Vanilla.

OK, I think found 4, capture 4 is a winner, might leave off the pholk amendment though

This means a change in rule 4 to maximum 4 wonders (including National). I think that's all right as given the change to rule 1, a peaceful win is the most likely (diplo, culture or space) so Great Library, Pyramids, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Taj Mahal would all be doable (and potentially useful) on Monarch as well as Heroic Epic (National not so useful), Oxford, Wall St etc.

Only 4 wonders? While playing with a leader whose traits are of no use to us? This should be quite a challenging game.

With the 4 wonder limit, I think we need to decide on a victory condition fairly early. Which ever victory we choose could have an impact on which 4 wonders we build. (ie the UN for a diplo game vs the space elevator etc.).

I want to keep the roster at 6 for now,

And one more thing ... Shouldn't this be OB04 ... with a roster of 4?

 

[Ozbenno]

Well as Conroe doesn't have Warlords, Vanilla and Saladin it is. I suspect an ulterior motive on his behalf to reprise Fun Time Sally though .

With the 4 wonder limit, I think we need to decide on a victory condition fairly early. Which ever victory we choose could have an impact on which 4 wonders we build. (ie the UN for a diplo game vs the space elevator etc.).

Agreed. I think Diplomacy or Space are the ways to go. Conquest might be an option if we're on a one landmass map (Great Plains, Lakes, Pangea etc) and culture as well. Having said that, I wouldn't decide how we're going until we've scouted out opponents and landmass. Diplo could be tricky if we're lined up against Tokogawa, Monty, Izzy etc. However, we need to decide pretty quickly (after the first couple of turnsets) to make sure we get the right wonders.

I'll post a starting position tonight and some thoughts on starting techs and builds.

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I dial this into my PC



And it spits out this.



I'm sensing Archipelago here. Maybe Fractal. The warrior is positioned badly and won't really reveal anything else.

I'd say settle in place (I always say that though ).

Research wise, as the sheep seem the only resourse visible, I'd go Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, then Mining and Bronze Working. If we meet an early neighbour early Axes might be good. An alternate is to chase Polytheism as we start with Mysticism. If we are isolated on an Archipelago, Fishing/Sailing would be another option to get out exploring as there is another landmass visible in the NW.

As there would be nothing for a worker to do (depending on what is revealed), I'd build a warrior then worker.

We'll go 20,20,20,15,15,15 turns each first time up and then stay at 15 in peacetime and 10 for war.

I'll play the first 20 tomorrow night.

Anyone got 2 cents?

 

[Kodii]

Archipelago is going to be interesting in regards to our "found four cities" rule.

Depending on our large and prosperous our starting "island" is, we may have to chase Sailing sooner than we'd like.

Since it looks like there is no seafood (?), I guess we're going to build a worker first, and in that case, we'd have to go to AH, and maybe BW after that, as Ozbenno already suggested.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Anyone got 2 cents?

As regards settling spots we could either on spot or 1S on the plains hill??
We could take a look on the hill, this along with moving warrior 2E would give us a better look and cost us only 1 turn either way.

Researchwise - I think we should attempt to monopolise the religions in this game as it would give us option of culture victory and would hamper opponents growth. We could take gamble on going for Buddhism, Hindu then Judaism; or play it safer and give up on Buddhism to concentrate on Hindu and Judaism. Then we should consolidate on worker techs.

If as suspected we are on Archipelago then we should have a little more time to settle our 3 other cities before we get boxed in or best spots taken.

Buildwise depends on research path I guess, wrker if we go wrker tech path, boats if we go fisdhing/sailing etc.