Obama's Speech Today

[MobBoss]

I'm unconvinced. 56% sounds a lot like McCain supporters + Hillary supporters.

Your european. Who cares if your convinced or not?

But when in doubt, go to the source: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...e_favorable_opinion_of_pastor_jeremiah_wright

Most voters, 56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments.

However, among African-Americans, 29% said Wright’s comments made them more likely to support Obama. Just 18% said the opposite while 50% said Wright’s comments would have no impact.

Last Thursday, 52% of voters nationwide had a favorable opinion of Obama. That figure has fallen to 47% on Monday (see recent daily results). In recent days, Obama has also lost ground to John McCain in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.

 

[Truronian]

Your european. Who cares if your convinced or not?

A good point.

But when in doubt, go to the source: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...e_favorable_opinion_of_pastor_jeremiah_wright

44% of democrats? Who could they be supporting?

 

[Archbob]

Also, Obama's website has a 64 page PDF file full of detailed plans (and, admittedly, one-liners too). It has actual issues, not Rezko, Wright, Ferraro, Clinton's tax returns, nor whatever the hell other gossip the media likes to spew. The PDF's about 70% pure substance, and 30% hope and change.

I've seen that too. But unfortunately, he has never touched of these issues in public. He should actually try that sometime. I still think the Bill/Hillary team would be more effective than Obama.

After seeing his speeches and having him say "go to my website" every time issues are brought up, I have to wonder if he knows whats in that document anymore.

No one is going to read a 60 page PDF document(admittedly, I've glossed over it only a couple of times). He needs to at least do some vague outlines in his speeches. Clinton at least has done that.

I mean his policies are very similar to Edward's.

I've judge candidates on policies and issues and so far Obama has just come up as weak because he has failed to address such besides saying "go to my website" which doesn't cut it for me.

 

[Integral]

No one is going to read a 60 page PDF document

I'm trying to.

However, the parts that I was interested in - fiscal issues and the economy - were carbon copies of what he had in his "issues" section. There was no additional information.

Is the entire document like that? Just a PDF version of the "issues" pages? If so, I won't bother to go through the whole thing...

 

[Sims2789]

I've seen that too. But unfortunately, he has never touched of these issues in public. He should actually try that sometime. I still think the Bill/Hillary team would be more effective than Obama.

After seeing his speeches and having him say "go to my website" every time issues are brought up, I have to wonder if he knows whats in that document anymore.

No one is going to read a 60 page PDF document(admittedly, I've glossed over it only a couple of times). He needs to at least do some vague outlines in his speeches. Clinton at least has done that.

I mean his policies are very similar to Edward's.

I've judge candidates on policies and issues and so far Obama has just come up as weak because he has failed to address such besides saying "go to my website" which doesn't cut it for me.

Obama uses speeches to get the dopey-eyed voters and show his general philosophy, which is important since it'll influence his decisions on future issues that aren't important now.

Is your argument that that he lacks substance, or that he doesn't express it well? I agree that he could show it better, but that he can produce a 64 page document that's only about 30% fluff shows pretty well that he's more than "just words."

And I'm sure he knows what's on his website. Nice one-liner, though.

 

[Archbob]

Obama uses speeches to get the dopey-eyed voters and show his general philosophy, which is important since it'll influence his decisions on future issues that aren't important now.

Is your argument that that he lacks substance, or that he doesn't express it well? I agree that he could show it better, but that he can produce a 64 page document that's only about 30% fluff shows pretty well that he's more than "just words."

And I'm sure he knows what's on his website. Nice one-liner, though.

I don't think he produced it. I pretty sure someone working for him actually produced it.
The 64 page document doesn't actually seem like all that much, especially on the economy part.

Honestly, I know the democratic stances pretty well. You give me a few days, I could produce a 64 page document outlining my policies as president as well.

You have to actually mention it and explain it, not just say "go to my website". If you can't explain your own policies and stances on issues outright, then I won't believe you actually know what they are.

By the ways are Obama supporters supposed to be "more educated."

More educated people should ask about serious issues and not be easily caught up by fancy rhetoric.

BTW: "Hope" and "Change" doesn't actually tell me too much about his philosophy or how he will make future decisions. It just says he says good intentions, like every other candidate.

 

[Sims2789]

I don't think he produced it. I pretty sure someone working for him actually produced it.
The 64 page document doesn't actually seem like all that much, especially on the economy part.

Honestly, I know the democratic stances pretty well. You give me a few days, I could produce a 64 page document outlining my policies as president as well.

You have to actually mention it and explain it, not just say "go to my website".

By the ways are Obama supporters supposed to be "more educated."

More educated people should ask about serious issues and not be easily caught up by fancy rhetoric.

I've gotten so tired of hearing the baseless "Obama's an empty suit" spam from the same naive people over and over again that I just point them to his website and hope that it changes their mind on him lacking substance by showing it to them.

 

[GenMarshall]

By the ways are Obama supporters supposed to be "more educated."

More educated people should ask about serious issues and not be easily caught up by fancy rhetoric.

May I say, "Cult of Personality"? That's just my theory.

"Hope" and "Change" doesn't actually tell me too much about his philosophy or how he will make future decisions. It just says he says good intentions, like every other candidate.

Actually, the change Obama would make is giving you change after taxes (I know it's a bad pun, but I heard this in the cafeteria at work )

 

[Archbob]

I've gotten so tired of hearing the baseless "Obama's an empty suit" spam from the same naive people over and over again that I just point them to his website and hope that it changes their mind on him lacking substance by showing it to them.

Until he addresses or outlines it in one of his speeches, I will say he is shallow on issues. I don't want to read it on your website, I want to hear it from your mouth. The other candidates have addressed it in their speeches(and guess what they have a website too! They just haven't said "Go to my website" everytime someone asks them about issues). I don't really care how much you can woo your supporters with "Hope" and "Change", if you can't explain your issues to me without me having to read some 60 page PDF document, your simply not ready to be commande-in-chief.
I've actually talked to some Rabbid college-educated(or in midst of college Obama supporters) around where I live(I live on campus) and hardly any of them knew anything about the issues, all they could shout at me was "hope" and "change", but unforunately they could not tell me what this "change" was or what I'm "hoping" for.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Grandmother under the bus?

I wonder, is that graphic enough? Maybe we should ask: Is it allright Obama lynched his granny to score political points? By hanging her and then set her on fire. Much more lively image. Makes people cringe. You know. To score some empathy points.

Deary me. Is this the quote which sparked such an outrage?

I can no more disown [Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

I don't know, I merely thought, "Yeah I know family like that. But they're family, whatcha gonna do?"

 

[emzie]

MobBoss, I honestly don't see any throwin'-grandma-under-the-bus treatment. The only person in the position to judge that right now is his grandmother, and certainly not you.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

During the Mad Cow Disease crisis in the UK back in the nineties, a panicked government minister trying to reassure a panicked British public that British beef was safe held a press conference in which he was photographed feeding his then 4-year-old daughter a beefburger. We now know that British beef was anything but safe and that the minister in question was putting his daughter's life at risk to make a rather cheap political point. In actual fact his daughter seemed to know better and refused to take a bite of the burger, but that doesn't change the fact that this photo is one of the most ugly, cringe-worthy bits of politics in living memory.



Contrast that with what Obama said about his Grandmother:

I can no more disown [Jeremiah Wright] than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Does anybody in the entire universe think that MobBoss's outrage is genuine? I certainly don't.

 

[sysyphus]

Politicians across the spectrum have been exploiting their families for years. At least Obama's doing so is part of a straightfoward and frank discussion about a topic that was thrust in his lap.

He was bold enough to face it head on rather than make a quick line and run and hide. And he did it without smearing anyone else.

It's a maturity I've not seen in the politics of any country for a long time.

 

[JerichoHill]

To be fair, Ron Paul had plans and solution which he actually mentioned in his speeches.

Obama does not have as much substance as Ron Paul or any of the other Candidates.

He needs to actually address issues more in his speeches rather than just shouting "we can change", I think that novelty is starting to wear off.

His website has his issues and positions with a good amount of substance on it. You're quite antagonistic in calling Obama supporters names, and view them with denigration. That's not very helpful for a conversation.

And before you say anything, I'm anti-Clinton. I dont know yet between Mc and Ob

 

[cFccFc]

Someone still trust this guy? Very undetailed changes he proposes I must say.

 

[Stapel]

No, thats regarded as using your grandmother as a political ploy. No more, no less. And one I find personally dispicable.

He indeed did use his grandmother as a politcal ploy. However, to say it was no more than that, is plain nonsense. It is also a very very recognisable thing for many people, both inside and outside the US.

There's nothing wrong with it. He's open about his life.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Fallen Angel Lord,

It's not entirely clear whether you're complaining that Obama doesn't have detailed policy plans -- which he does, as people here have shown -- or that he chooses not to explain them frequently in his stump speeches. The former, as I've said, is obviously false. The latter, however, just begs a few questions:

(i) Are you sure that he doesn't ever talk policy? Have you seen all his speeches? I certainly haven't -- I only see what they choose to broadcast on TV, which is but a small portion of all the campaigning a candidate does. I haven't seen a detailed policy speech from McCain, either, but I'm not going to assume without evidence that he hasn't made one when I wasn't looking.

(ii) Why does that matter? You say that you "judge candidates on policies and issues," but you're not. You're judging Obama on the style of his campaign. He chooses to disseminate the information about his policy proposals in a particular way, and you're judging him on that. Now I'm sure you do disagree with his policy proposals, but don't claim that you're judging him on that when you're not.

Cleo

 

[JerichoHill]

Someone still trust this guy? Very undetailed changes he proposes I must say.

Context much? Maybe you could read his website. I assume that everyone arguing that x has or doesnt have substance has taken the time to read each candidates website

 

[I'm Cleo!]

These threads -- especially the post of the picture of Obama not having raised his hand to his heart as a picture was snapped -- just turn into exactly what Obama talked about yesterday. A constant parade of manufactured "controversies" about the candidates instead of a discussion of the actual issues. The picture above is almost a perfect example of it -- it's almost as if cFccFc had heard the speech and tried to find something to fit its description.

Cleo

 

[Ziggy Stardust]