Obsession with the "perfect" start.

[Xerit]

So I have an interesting problem I was hoping someone here might be able to help with.

I find that I tend to spend hours looking for the perfect start, reloading over and over again, only to finally get that start and have it make me so powerful that it trivializes the rest of the game. However I can't seem to shake that feeling that if I don't get a good start I should just reroll.

Has anyone else struggled with this? Is there something one of you did that helped you feel more at home playing with average, or even below average starts?

(Emperor/Immortal difficulty, if that matters)

 

[Veneke]

I typically reroll for hours to get a decent map (I'm less concerned with the actual start). I've spent three days looking for one and finally got it so I know what you mean!

However, if you're looking for a good start and don't want it to unbalance the game I suggest turning on Legendary Start in the advanced options when you set up your game. You'll have a very strong start but so will everyone else, so if it still trivialises the game you just need to move up a difficulty level. It should save you quite a number of rerolls.

 

[aceflamingo23]

holmes i use to hate my starts because they use to be all the same then I chose this one option called "shuffle" under world type and now the starts are a lot more interesting you should try it.

 

[revelation216]

Shuffle is hands down the best map for a Single Player campaign.

 

[Quintillus]

Maybe turning down the difficulty? I haven't played Civ5 a whole lot yet, but in most games I actually prefer a worse-than-average start for the challenge - too high a difficulty could cancel that out. In my current Civ5 game I'm on a mostly-tundra island that's rather resource-poor and has lots of ice, but I see that as part of the fun and the challenge.

I suppose it also depends on what you're playing for. If you're trying to beat your best score every game, or play a Hall of Fame game or something, I can certainly see how that would lead to wanting amazing starts. But there's something to be said for starting on a small, resource-poor island and pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, too. And it can be really fun duking it out in a come-from-behind late game, too. Like my previous Civ5 game, which came down to nuclear war and a space race at the end and whose outcome was very much in doubt.

 

[zekeand]

I have the same Obssesion. I allways reroll my starts. I know thefeeling, bro... . I ended with priceless start possition in a way that the game is won even an era before i ends.
I tried Legendary Start wih better results.

I´ll give shuffle a try too.


Greetings

Zeke

PD: My english is poor, plese forgive me.

 

[Kabloosh]

I play on prince so I don't have to worry about perfection. I play for the immersion value and don't worry about what type of victory condition to aim for.

I just try to keep up or become a run away. Most of my victories are through the space race or a diplomatic victory though with a lot of warmongering at the end if I cannot keep up with a runaway.
Ironically though I had an amazing start spot for my capital. I had 2 stone, 1 marble an intersecting river, copper, and hilly desert surrounded by some plains and grassland. I had like 15 wonders in my capital and at the end I could produce a nuclear missile every 6 turns.

I also owned the entire continent by the end and the funny thing is while I lacked a lot of aluminum unlike the other side I had all the uranium so I was the only one capable of building nuclear weapons.

Some starts may be amazing at first but you can really end up hurting for some important strategic resources mid/late game just like I had a problem trying to modernize my massive military. I only upgraded my air force to fighter jets and stealth bombers and left my tanks and artillery stay the same. I don't see much of a point building anything other than a air force, navy and mechanized infantry at the end anyways.

 

[FeiLing]

Start to play GotMs and TSGs (where rules are you can not replay any turn).

BTW, I wonder what you think the prefect start is? It's probably very very different for every player... which means there's no perfect starting location anyway. I bet if you actually just played any game you created you'd be surprised that your "imperfect" starting position might have turned out better than you thought.

To me it really only matters if the game was an OCC.

 

[Kabloosh]

Start to play GotMs and TSGs (where rules are you can not replay any turn).

BTW, I wonder what you think the prefect start is? It's probably very very different for every player... which means there's no perfect starting location anyway. I bet if you actually just played any game you created you'd be surprised that your "imperfect" starting position might have turned out better than you thought.

To me it really only matters if the game was an OCC.

Especially as you unlock strategic resources. It sucks to unlock coal and find you have none anywhere.

 

[Kilroy Was Here]

Once, I rolled a plains start on a reasonably-sized island.

There were four stones and five marbles.

I settled immediately, then teched straight to Masonry.

The Ancient Wonders DLC hadn't loaded up, so I couldn't build the Mausoleum.

 

[The_Quasar]

Mostly I go random map, random civ, and no re-rolls, and no restarts...

Imho it makes the game more realistic... and more fun.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

G&K made the starting location less important, since you can easily adept with religion & new wonders. The only really nasty situation you can end up with is starting around tundra or marshes without any decent ressource tiles.

Apart from that: Keep playing.
It may be harder, but winning a victory from a terrible starting position is much more rewarding. It will also teach you to adopt different tactics and strategies "one the fly" instead of following a fixed path each game.

 

[krelian]

I am a big believer in "play the cards you were dealt" so I never experienced this. In fact, it would feel like cheating and make the game a lot of less fun. I actually enjoy being at the mercy of the RNG because it gives me the challenge of making the best decisions in a difficult spot and not the obvious ones where I am so far ahead it doesn't really matter.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Is there something one of you did that helped you feel more at home playing with average, or even below average starts?

All you need to do is keep playing. Once you realize you don't need a perfect start to win and/or have a good and enjoyable game, you'll get rid off bad habit. Absolute majority of the games are winnable with subpar starting location.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

All you need to do is keep playing. Once you realize you don't need a perfect start to win and/or have a good and enjoyable game, you'll get rid off bad habit. Absolute majority of the games are winnable with subpar starting location.

Exactly.
If you find it too hard, just go down one difficulty level and practice until you master the bad starting locations, then try again on higher difficulty.

 

[Koiranputki]

I am a big believer in "play the cards you were dealt" so I never experienced this. In fact, it would feel like cheating and make the game a lot of less fun. I actually enjoy being at the mercy of the RNG because it gives me the challenge of making the best decisions in a difficult spot and not the obvious ones where I am so far ahead it doesn't really matter.

I re-roll occasionally...sometimes maybe a bit too often, but it does feel like cheating. The most interesting games are those where you can face the "challenges", not knowing if eventually you'll prevail. Though having said this, games that are "too hard", just as those that are "too easy", can become boring slogs after a while...

Most frustrating can be a failure to build some of my favourite wonders... Stonehenge, Chichen Itza, Machu Picchu, and especially Notre Dame... I try to carry on, but sometimes the fun just goes out of the game... Occasionally I can get them early in the game if a nearby civ has built any of them and I have the wherewithal to capture... usually...their capital... capturing them late in the game just isn't the same and is often not really much of an advantage.

 

[Randall_Flagg]

I will reroll if I pop an ice start, but other then that i go with it. i know you can do fine with ice, but since I do not enjoy ice starts it is a no brainer.

 

[P-Zombie]

I have the same addiction. I have a set of conditions in my head, and I reroll until I get a map that meets those requirements. I've been trying to expand my horizons though...or I was until Diablo 3 came out.

Anyway, the "keep playing" advice is the right advice. Play each map at least long enough to explore your immediate surroundings. You may find that the terrain offers some exciting city spots nearby, or other features that will make you go "oooo...cool map". If you get 50 or 100 turns in and it's still uninspiring and you're not having fun, then you can say with some legitimacy that you gave this map a chance, and go for a new one.

Hopefully you'll find, as I did, that "just keep playing" leads to more fun and satisfaction from playing the game.

 

[Scarrings]

would this map ease your satisfaction?

Let me hear what you think if you try this map:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/86999335/0ldAutoSave_Initial_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save

 

[Cjb64]

Yeah I got the same problem with rerolling a lot, but I'm not looking for an overpowered start. Mostly what I want is to start on the continent type that matches the civ I'm playing. It also bugs the heck out of me if I'm playing any of the European civs and get a jungle start.

As for things that actually affect gameplay, I like to start on a river. Or If I get a coastal start with 0 sea resources (happens a lot even with legendary start turned on) it kinda annoys me depending on what I got on the land. None of these things would matter though if it were only possible to relocate your palace like you could in Civ 4.