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Obsolete Buildings

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwaja, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    These are the buildings that become obsolete that I can see from Civilopedia:

    I am not 100% sure on what effects expire and what effects continue to show up even after the obsoleting techs.

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    1. Monasteries: Trains missionaries. +10%:science:. +2:culture:.
    Obsolete with Scientific Method

    After Scientific Method, you lose the :science: bonus but still keep the :culture: bonus, as well as the ability to train missionaries.

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    2. Castles: +25%:espionage:. +1 trade routes. +50% defense except against gunpowder units. -25% damage to defense from bombardment except against gunpowder units. +1:culture:.
    Obsolete with Economics, except for defense bonuses.

    You keep the :culture: bonus and the defense bonuses against units that are not gunpowder based. The other effects you lose them.

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    3. Citadels: Same as castles, except it also provides +5 experience to siege units.
    Obsolete with Economics, except for defense bonuses.

    Same as with castles on benefits lost upon Economics, but also loses the experience bonus to siege units.

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    4. Walls: +50% defense except against gunpowder units. -50% damage to defense from bombardment except against gunpowder units.
    Obsolete with Rifling, except for defense bonuses.

    Self explanatory.

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    5. Duns: Same as walls, except it also provides free Guerilla I promotions to units built in the city.
    Obsolete with Rifling, except for defense bonuses.

    Self explanatory as well. Also loses the free promotion bonus upon Rifling.

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    6. Stables: Provides +2 experience points to mounted units.
    Obsolete with Advanced Flight.

    Loses the experience bonus with Advanced Flight.

    However, in a case where you have Advanced Flight but does not have oil, you can't build gunships. So does this mean that your mounted units will be built but without the normal experience you would have gotten had you not gotten Adv. Flight?

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    7. Gers: Instead of +2, provides +4 experience points to mounted units.
    Obsolete with Advanced Flight.

    Loses the experience bonus with Advanced Flight.

    Same question applies as with the stables.

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    8. Monuments: +1:) for charismatic leaders. +1:culture:.
    Obsolete with Astronomy.

    You lose the :) bonus but still keep the :culture: bonus.

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    9. Obelisks: Same as monuments, except it also can turn 2 citizens into priests.
    Obsolete with Astronomy.

    You lose every benefits except the :culture: bonus.

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    10. Steles: Same as monuments, except it also provides +25%:culture:.
    Obsolete with Astronomy.

    You lose every benefits except the :culture: bonus.

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    11. Totem Poles: Same as monuments, except it also provides +3 experience points to archery units.
    Obsolete with Astronomy.

    You lose every benefits except the :culture: bonus.

    -----

    Are these an accurate assessment? So based on my foundings, it seems that when a building becomes obsolete, you lose:

    1. the ability to build them.
    2. the extra bonuses and effects.

    You keep:
    1. the :culture: bonus.

    The exception is for walls and castles and their equivalent unique buildings that keep the defense bonuses against non gunpowder based units. Also, the existing monasteries continue to allow you to build missionaries.

    Please let me know if there is an error or few in my assessment.
     
  2. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Monuments and obelisks that are "made" by Stonehenge disappear altogether when Stonehenge obsoletes. However, any that you made with hammers will stick around.
     
  3. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Ahhh... I forgot about that one. ^_^
     
  4. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

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    For monasteries, you also lose any bonuses from wonders (AP hammers, UoS research, etc).
     
  5. Choeimok

    Choeimok Spreading the confusion

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    Will you also lose Sistine culture and go back to +2cpt (+4 if the monastery is old enough)?
     
  6. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    I think there are 3 wonders in particular, dealing with religious buildings:

    1. Sistine Chapel: +5:culture: for every state religion buildings.
    2. Spiral Minaret: +2:gold: for every state religion buildings.
    3. University of Sankore: +2:science: for every state religion buildings.

    Sistine doesn't become obsolete, but the other 2 becomes obsolete with Computers, which is quite a long time after Scientific Method obsoletes the monasteries.

    Still, I think that monasteries, even after they become obsolete, still function as a religious buildings because they can still crank out missionaries even after Scientific Method. So I believe that the above 3 wonders continue to count the monasteries as religion buildings. Of course, they have to be for your state religion.

    Does this mean that if you are adopting Free Religion, the bonuses from buildings will not apply?
     
  7. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    SM and UoS do not apply to monasteries after scientific method. I imagine the same hold true for Sistine (never looked).

    Free religion kills the SM/UoS bonuses as well since you don't have a state religion.
     
  8. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

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    The Apostolic Palace also gives +2:hammers:.

    I can't confirm Sistine, but for Spiral, AP, and UoS, the monastery definitely loses the bonuses at Scientific Method - I just double checked this in a game I'm playing.
     
  9. Choeimok

    Choeimok Spreading the confusion

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    So I remembered that I DID build Sistine in my last game, so I looked it up. For some reason didn't think about that I can do that before :smoke:
    So, in the buildings list, monasteries only give 2 culture, but if I mouseover, it does show bonuses. Or does mouseovering just show how a building would work if it wasn't obsolete?
     
  10. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    I stand corrected. I just tested this out with World Builder, and you are right.

    Monasteries, after Scientific Method, do NOT get the +2:gold: from Spiral Minaret and do NOT get the +2:science: from University of Sankore. In addition, they also do NOT get the +5:culture: from Sistine Chapel either. Also, they do NOT get the +2:hammers: from the Apostolic Palace.
     
  11. Cunaxa

    Cunaxa Chieftain

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    I found this thread yesterday when I wanted to find out if i'm gonna loose the hammer bonus after researching Scientific Method and the above statement seems to be untrue at least as long as the AI that built the AP doesn't have SM yet.
     
  12. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    Monasteries loose the 2 :hammers: bonus from the AP (as well as the other wonder bonuses) once you research SM. Other religious buildings (temples, cathedrals, and shrines) keep the bonuses until the applicable wonder obsoletes.
     
  13. Mizar

    Mizar IM

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    they are still worthwhile if your Bureau Cap has a ton of beakers, even if only for 50 turns.
     
  14. Cunaxa

    Cunaxa Chieftain

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    In my current game I am already researching Electricity and the hammer bonus for the monasteries is still active (see screenshot). As I said I guess it's because Boudica who built the AP still doesn't have SM, because she is getting dogpiled for the last few hundred years..

    EDIT:

    Sorry my bad :D the hammers are still shown in the city screen but the bonus is gone
     

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  15. jerVL/kg

    jerVL/kg Sheep Nuker

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    Yes, you lose the XP bonus no matter what.

    Another factoid: When completing the Horse Whisperer Quest, one of the rewards is to gain +1:food: for stables. You *lose* this bonus as well once you reach Adv.Flight, which can be annoying because suddenly your maxed-out cities will begin starving!!!
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  16. whitelaughter

    whitelaughter Warlord

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    The State Religion's Shrine also gains +2:hammers: from the Apostolic Palace, so presumably loses that with Mass Media.

    Not exactly obsolescence, but since gunships cannot get :health: they don't benefit from the Red Cross national wonder, unlike Mounted units.
     

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