OCC and why I don't get it...

[blitzkrieg1980]

So I decided to try the OCC for the first time ever this evening. I chose HC of Inca for his IND (wonderspam) and FIN (good bureau capital) and put him on a Fractal map / marathon / monarch.

I figured a mixture of Super Settled Specialists in REP and Bureau cottage spam would provide the science. The start was incredible with 6 grassland hills (1 had copper, later another popped coal), wet corn, 4 floodplains, a plains gold hill, and 4-5 more riverside grassland. I don't think I could have asked for much more (besides, perhaps, marble and/or stone). My borders expanded rapidly from all the wonders plus the fact that I [accidentally] founded Hinduism AND Judaism (going for early ToA and OR for wonderspam).

However, I'm not really sure how one is supposed to win OCC. AFAI can tell, you can't win by culture (need 3 cities), domination is right out, diplomacy is an option (but I usually turn it off so it was for this game), and space race would be nearly impossible (how can you tech those high level techs & build parts before getting DoW on or losing to another civ?) I guess a raze-and-move-on type of rampage would work for conquest, but with a 2 landmass map like Fractal and a non-coastal start, that's pretty unlikely as well.

For those of you who play OCC, do you usually do Pangaea? Win by diplomacy? Or is space race attainable? I just don't see how. I had tons of settled GP and a 10 town + gold mine bureau capital running REP and Free Religion, building research with a ton of hammers and I barely broke 1000 per turn.

So what do you guys do?

 

[s.bernbaum]

Space race is actually not that difficult. There is a nice write up in the War Academy on one way to do it. Try playing a game using that "recipe" to get the idea.

 

[-Asterix-]

Space race shouldn't be too hard with that kind of start on monarch. If you choose some type of map with multiple continents, you should start by the sea (as few water tiles as possible) to keep conquest available.

Research should be your weapon in OCC as you can't really compete with numbers with tech parity. You should try to get Oxford online asap with some bulbs on the way and I'd suggest some philosophic leader instead of industrious or financial. One good option here is also to start with forested bfc (mostly grassland) and beeline SciMeth -> Bio for National Park and dozen forest preserves. That really pays off and you shouldn't have problems competing for space. You also get lots of happiness that way and don't have to worry about unhealthiness.

 

[barbertje]

Space race isn't too hard, if you manage to not get attacked.

The first target is the pyramids, then aesthetics-literature-drama for the great library, national epic and the globe theatre. After this you should be able to trade for code of laws, and concentrate on running as much scientists as possible. The next target is civil service-bulb philosophy and run pacifism if you have a state religion, and then education, and build oxford. You should be able to tech faster than the AI's for quite some time, after Oxford is built, even on immortal. After this, biology and the national park.

Playing on marathon hurts you, if you don't want to go to war. The AI's will be able to expand faster (cheaper workers and workboats, faster unit movement) and it won't help you nearly as much. Max tech rate should be 1100-1200, arriving on alpha centauri at around 1900.
Financial doesn't help with specialists, altough it can be good later after environmetalism with
plenty of forest preserves and windmills.

 

[Cam_H]

Yes - there are a number of guides and threads (search "OCC" in the title of threads in the Civ4 forums), and the comments here are pretty well in line with how I play. I do find that The Internet is crucial in most of my OCCs, which are invariably pursuing a Spaceship win.

When considering guides and threads, I do think that the games that you can get away with minimal defense these days (with BtS 3.19) are much less common than in past versions of Civ4 - the likelihood that you'll be attacked with mid-sized stacks at least a couple of times I feel is quite high, and you'll probably need to be prepared to support 'say' eight or nine units unless you're absolutely sure that an AI DoW won't be a problem.

 

[lymond]

FIN is generally the last trait I pick for an OCC and never build cottages. Philo is hands down the best trait with a combination of Expansive or Spiritual. Yeah, Gandhi and Peter are good OCC leaders. IND is pretty good and Ram is a very good OCC leader as is Bizmark.

You have the right idea with the settled specialists. Not sure I like your early tech path though.

As for space, it's pretty easy on mid to low levels on your own. On higher levels, you generally want Permanent Alliances on, which will also help you win faster on lower levels. PAs obviously help with Dom/Conq type wins although they aren't impossible victories on your own. Diplo/Religious are obvious easy options - not sure whey you would turn it off any VC. Culture can only be won with a PA and even then it's a bit tricky.

 

[Silverbow]

Space and Diplo are fairly easy in OCC. Cottaging is a no-no, you want forests for NP and farms to grow into tons of rep specialists. I prefer Ramses for OCCs, as Philo can be duplicated early enough wit pacifism, and IND is very strong as you'll likely want a lot of wonders (Pyramids are basically compulsory for early REP).

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Thanks for all your advice! Wow, I really had no idea what optimal play is in OCC. A full SE is desired, then.

About my initial tech path:
I was planning on using cottage spam bureaucracy so I wanted ToA for the trade route boost and free priest. After going mining first (for the gold) and polytheism for ToA, I went masonry (for 'mids). But since I accidentally founded Hinduism, I wanted OR for the building bonus and to spread Hinduism to my neighbors to prevent DoW. That move worked. Then, headed towards aesthetics and lit for Parthenon and GL. All in all, I did OK, though. Next time I'll concentrate on full SE and a spi or phi leader.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[rah]

Small Pangea Conquest. Just be sure you're on the coast in case an island gets settled.

 

[JustBen]

The gold standard for OCC guides is at forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324408. It's supposed to be a space guide but it's an optimal opening for any victory. I believe that in the replies the OP recants his advice to push a greedy Oracle, and instead leverage an early CoL.

You might not want to run OCC on Marathon, though I too prefer to OCC on the same settings that I play normal games. But there are a lot of turns where you build Research and end turn. Powering out a full SS from one city also makes the end of the game drag.

Raising sea levels to high is another popular setting, to account for all the land you don't grab. I find it unsettling to play on otherwise normal settings but see all the AIs with 1-3 extra cities. Pangaeas with Pressed or Natural shorelines are more likely to spawn you in a corner to hide in; Solid shoreline is less likely to produce a double-sized AI monster.

Edit -- OCC Bismark 1 is TMIT's casted OCC game, if you're into watching that sort of thing.