OCC Club Mk 3 Game 1: Suleiman

[happyturtle]

Welcome to the OCC Club Mk 3: Bride of OOC Club. ​

First of all many many thanks to TMIT for his guide on WB saves, dalamb for the boilerplate I lifted from the Nobles Club, and everyone who encouraged me to give a try hosting a game series. This is my first time putting a WB save up for play, and I really hope it works out! I test played several of the saves for a handful of turns, and one of them to about 1AD and didn't see any problems, but if you find any, please let me know!

The purpose of the club is to have some fun playing the One City Challenge, where the human player gets a single city. That's it. You can't build a settler, and any cities that you conquer or culture flip are automatically razed. To make up for this, you can have five National Wonders in your city instead of only two, and buildings and wonders that require a certain number of buildings to be built (Statue of Zeus, Cathedral, Oxford) will only need one. All victory types are available to the solo player except for Culture, as you can't get three cities to Legendary, or Domination, since you won't have the land or population. However, if you enter on a Permanent Alliance, even those are available.

Our first leader is Suleiman of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans start with Agriculture and The Wheel.



Traits: Suleiman is Philosophical and Imperialistic. Philosophical is possibly the best trait for a OCC, as settled Great People can really power up your city. Imperialistic is one of the worst, as you aren't going to be expanding. The bonus on Great Generals is only useful if you war.

The UB: The Hamman, a Aqueduct with +2 . Happiness and Health in the same building is great for early game growth, and valuable if you plan to forego the Globe Theatre and use other methods to keep your city-state happy.



The UU: The Janissary, a Musketman with +25% Archery, Melee, and Mounted. This makes beelining Gunpowder very attractive.



About Permanent Alliances: If you play with Permanent Alliances on, you might be able to ally with an AI later in the game. This is the only way to get a Culture or Domination win. They'll need to really really like you, and you need to have shared a war or a defensive pact with them for a while. If you make the Alliance, all of your techs are automatically shared. They'll give you any resource you ask for. Your workers can improve their land. Their cities count as yours for healing or upgrading troops. You are essentially one shared team for the rest of the game. One odd thing I saw in a game, is that when I gifted some Fast Workers to my Ally, they remained as Fast Workers rather than becoming bog standard Workers. I don't know if that happens with all UUs or if it was just a bug. Also, if you are warring with your Ally, remember, if you take the city, it will be razed. You can soften it up and leave it with one badly wounded archer still there, but if you want the city to stand, you have to let your Ally make the kill.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Inland Sea, with two additional AIs added since Inland Sea is a land heavy map and to help fill in the space we won't be using.

Spoiler edits :

Moved the corn to a riverside tile, and nudged several nearby resources closer to the settler to make the city more viable.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met)
500 AD or so (possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or highest score)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strategies don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Custom Scenario", and look for "OOC Suleiman Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels).

>>> Be sure and select One City Challenge in the options, or you will be playing a normal game!!!<<< ​

I think I fixed this in the 'Take 3' files, but please check anyway.

I don't know if I forgot to check this before I made the WB save, or if it has to be selected at the time of starting the game. If after settling your city, you have the option to build a settler, then you are NOT in a OCC game, and you need to restart and select that option. (Of course if you want to play a standard game, feel free. Nobody will boot you from the thread! )

You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome!

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

Edit: Save removed to fix handicap issue. It'll be back up in a bit.

Hopefully fixed. Thanks cas!

 

[cas]

I'm playing this on the emporer no huts save and the tech pace seems more like noble-prince. It's been a while since I looked at a wb file, but something seems off from the game experience so far.

edit:
I looked at the emporer no huts wb save, and I think you forgot to remove the handicaps, so the AI is teching at noble. I could be wrong. Someone with more wb experience can double-check.

From TMIT's worldbuilder instructions:
"- Use find and replace. Find "handicap=" and replace it with a blank (literally, delete "handicap=", not what follows it, or delete the whole line). This should let the AI handicap vary by level, and if a human screws around with this and manages to switch civs, he won't have monarch + bonuses ."


cas

 

[happyturtle]

Ouch!

Thanks for the heads up. I'll go edit the saves now.

Saves edited and replaced. Please let me know if you find any more problems!

 

[i_imperator]

Nice to see this series get off the ground and i wish you the best in hosting it Dont have alot of experience with OCC so im definitaly going to do this! sigining in!
And dont worry about making mistakes with the WB it can be a bit tough to grasp at first but once you get it its as easy and as common as brushing your teeth!

 

[The Oz-Man]

First one done. Full write-up in a bit. Geez, that was the most nerve-wracking game I can remember.

 

[cas]

Emporer - no huts, no events, removed PA. 1886AD space

Started over after correcting the wb file so that the AI would tech at emporer rather than noble. Kept the same tech path and strategy up to the point where I had realized the original wb was not correct and stopped (~1000BC).

Not the best date, but on higher levels sometimes you have to make sacrifices to keep from being attacked and can't build all the shiny wonders.

Spoiler :

Pretty straightforward space game.
Oracle->CS sling 1600BC
Since we had marble, on to literature for GLib (850BC) and NE (~600BC)
On to Education for Oxford (~1AD)
liberalism -> Bio sling around 980AD

Popped 4 great artists (+1 from Music) rather than scientists. I think the chances were <10% Gartist. Very annoying. Used 3 for golden ages and 2 for partial bulb of Computers.

Late game science was ~1050 beakers when not in GA or building research. ~1250 when building research.

Didn't switch to a religion until ~500AD once Hindu became dominant. Earlier religion would have sped up my date, but increased the chance of DoW. Had to help spread Hindu to Hammy, but then I was set with Justin on one side and Hammy on the other. Gigggles, Ragnar, and eventually Cyrus were all Hindu too. Once the Hindu religious block was set up, the game was won.

Also the date was slowed because I didn't build Pyramids. With 2 industrious civs and no stone, I didn't think the chances were good on Emporer. It would have been close if I'd tried for it. Was built by Ragnar ~675BC.

Enjoyed the game. Thanks for hosting.

cas

 

[i_imperator]

I had to restart this map a second time and i have a funny story as to why in the spoiler!

Spoiler :

I tried to worker steal from hammy, and he sent in one of his bowmen to attack my cap and took it with only 10% odds, funniest start to a game ive ever had!

 

[happyturtle]

*snerk*

 

[michmbk]

Question for cas...

Spoiler :

How did you pull off Oracle-CS by 1600 BC? I'm messing with the emperor save, and I can't seem to get the techs right to get both COL and math by then. Did you skip both masonry and BW? Even doing that, i still couldn't get there. I went mining to get the gold up asap then straight up to writing to get an early library up, but still can't get it done that fast.

The best I could do was 1360 BC to get all the prerequisites, and by then it seems like Ram or Justinian builds the Oracle. Very curious how you got there so early.

It does seem like mids goes late in this game, so I was able to get mids in the 800 BC timeframe without any issues, but I'd love to figure out how to pull off CS that early...

 

[i_imperator]

Just a question for the more experienced occ players, is it possible to ahieve a culture victory with an occ? I came across an article in the war academy that mentioned that it was impossible and that Firaxis needed to patch it out, as it was impossible due to the fact that you cannot get the three cities?

 

[The Oz-Man]

I should write this up because it was a hilarious game.

Monarch-level OCC with Choose Religions on and, more importantly, events on because I am a freaking idiot:

Spoiler :

Okayso. Somehow in my haste to get the game going, I forgot to turn events off. By the time I realized this had happened, I had already built the Oracle, Great Wall, and Pyramids. The first event I got? Slave revolt. It happened three times. I also got two volcanic eruptions because why not. Then somehow I was tasked with building seven Colosseums because this game effing loved me.

Despite my idiocy, the early game went extremely well since I got Justinian's (Christian, of course, thanks, Choose Religions!) religion and saw it spread to Hammurabi and Cyrus as well. The factions were Justin/Cyrus (and vassal Hammy)/me/Izzy as Christians against the Islamic Ragnar/Toku/Giggles faction, with Ramesses as a Hindu wildcard and sort of buddying up to everyone because he doesn't seem to value religion heavily.

I built a ton of wonders, and most of them I probably shouldn't have built: Oracle, Great Wall, 'mids, Hanging Gardens (probably not), Great Library, Sistine (AI denial), Kremlin (ended up being only mostly useless and certainly not worth the hammer investment), Broadway/Rock & Roll (AI denial), and Redentor (surprisingly handy). 5 NW were Globe, NE, IW, NP, and Oxford. Diplomacy involved kissing Justinian's butt and using him as a big meaty shield, which ended up being bad news later on. I also got the Dai Miao when I spawned a Prophet late (thanks, Oracle!).

The early game was cake. With easy-to-please neighbors and no barb trouble, I was able to focus on wonderspam. Oracle was for CoL, which led to an early (though not as early as cas) CS and Bureau, at which point OCC nuttiness just took off. Lib'd Bio in 1320 without much competition--and, shortly after that, it all kind of started to go to hell.

First, minor mistakes: a bit too much wonderspam, not enough building Research. I founded Standard Ethanol in the hopes of getting oil for railroads (didn't work!) and Creative Constructions because I was beaten to Mining Inc. (didn't help!). I should've headed into Caste System a bit earlier, too. But those were quibbles. Then it started to get terrifyingly real.

The first shoe to drop involved Ramesses, who all of a sudden--in the early 1900's--began running the slider for a cultural victory when I was quite a way from victory. I'm convinced he'd have gotten it if I hadn't gotten the Sistine. So as luck would have it, I was teching Fission at the time (having already grabbed Rocketry for Apollo) and had already built the Redentor, so I built the Manhattan Project, headed into US, and started using my cash reserves to buy some ICBMs. It cost me Friendly with Justinian and Cyrus (and Pleased with Izzy), but 6 ICBMs took care of Rammy's cultural centers. UN vote stopped the war and assured that I had not only prevented Rammy from winning the game, but I wouldn't even have to pay him to stop the war.

The other shoe dropped not much later when Justin and vassal Ragnar went to war with Giggles and his vassal Toku... and vassal'd them both. Remember when I said the UN was in play? Yeah, that. Fortunately, by the time Justin had Secretary General, Gilgamesh somehow broke away from vassalage. Of course, this just prompted Justin back into war with him. I guess he denied a tribute request or something? I don't know how it happened, but in any case, it saved my bacon.

The third shoe dropped when Cyrus built the Space Elevator and suddenly started spamming spaceship parts like nobody's business. Thanks to the Interwebs I had a tech lead, but I wasn't confident in my ability to keep up with his production. To make matters worse, Justinian then finished his beatdown of Gilgamesh, giving him the votes he needed to win the game. Meanwhile, Rammy had gotten Ecology and was cleaning up the nuclear fallout, meaning he was back on the clock to win culture.

So I had three different leaders gunning for three different victory conditions, a perturbed Isabella who didn't like me nuking her buddy Ramesses (HOW WERE THEY BUDDIES!? I can't figure this out.) and was perpetually demanding bribes to fend off the hand of the reaper, and three casings, a thruster, and an engine left to build. I had the nukes to stop (I think) two of these things from happening, but Justinian of course couldn't be stopped at all.

So I did something I've never done before.

I launched early.

Remember when I said that this was the most stressful game in a long time? Fourteen turns to get there. In that time, a UN vote (with SG Justin) was going to come up, and I had no idea what would happen. Meanwhile, thanks to launching early, my ship could come crashing back down, effectively costing me the game.

Then the UN vote came up.

"Universal Civic: Environmentalism."

NEVARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!



And so in 1974, the jerkish Turkish--having dropped giant nuclear weapons on the world's greatest sources of beauty and art, having brought global warming to the planet, and having defied the planet's last best hope to achieve environmental stability on this scorched Earth--got into their spaceship and set off for the stars, ready to no doubt bring ruin to the next world as well.

Thanks for the map, turtle!

 

[happyturtle]

Just a question for the more experienced occ players, is it possible to ahieve a culture victory with an occ? I came across an article in the war academy that mentioned that it was impossible and that Firaxis needed to patch it out, as it was impossible due to the fact that you cannot get the three cities?

No cultural victory possible unless you make a Permanent Alliance with another civ. It's absurdedly easy to get a OCC to Legendary, but there isn't a 'Super-Legendary' status that would be equivalent to 3 Legendary cities.

@Oz:

Spoiler :

Great game! I've not used nukes a lot - is it possible to use them to reduce the opponent's population to give them fewer UN votes?

 

[dalamb]

Tangent: one BOTM did an "OCC" with 3 cities -- the mapmaker worldbuilt 3 cities then turned on the OCC option. It was oddly fun to go cultural with that setup.

 

[cas]

@michmbk

Spoiler :

mining-pottery-writing-myst-mason-poly-priest-CoL(1880BC)-math(1640BC)

I settled on the plains hill to the west of the start position. Worker farmed the corn, mined the gold, cottaged the northern fp...then I'm not sure how the timing worked with the second fp cottage versus quarry on the marble. I did micromanage a little for growth versus production when the computer trys to stunt growth if you don't have a warrior in the capital.

early BW isn't necessary with marble.

cas

 

[Habitus]

I looked at the emporer no huts wb save, and I think you forgot to remove the handicaps, so the AI is teching at noble. I could be wrong. Someone with more wb experience can double-check.

From TMIT's worldbuilder instructions:
"- Use find and replace. Find "handicap=" and replace it with a blank (literally, delete "handicap=", not what follows it, or delete the whole line). This should let the AI handicap vary by level, and if a human screws around with this and manages to switch civs, he won't have monarch + bonuses ."

The AI always techs at Noble costs which is what the handicap= sets along with other stuff (I've considered setting it to settler for a fun IU game since they'll tech really fast then). So it wouldn't of been that i think.

 

[michmbk]

cas:

Spoiler :

That's exactly what I did, but I'm not getting there without a bulb. On about the 4th try, I was able to make it happen with a GS bulbing math. Settled on the PH, and used the exact same tech path in my try earlier today - without the bulb, I'm falling short:



With the bulb, though:



Did you bulb math? Normally I wouldn't, but it seems like an ok play here if it means early CS...

EDIT: Never mind cas - I figured it out with one more run...

Spoiler :

Gotta get the academy up as fast as possible - I ran this one to get my library built as quickly as I could, and ran 2 scientists immediately - PHI meant a super fast academy, and that allowed the tech rate to go fast enough to get there:



I've also roaded a bunch of forests, so I think I can chop out mids before barbs become a pest - we'll see...

 

[Abegweit]

Emperor ~500AD

Spoiler :

Tech went Mining-Myst-Masonry-BW-Poly-Mono. Got the religion and switched immediately to Judaism and OR.

Got SH, ToA, Mids, Oracle (for Theology and another religion), HG, MoM, HS, AP, GL and maybe something else I've forgotten. Got four Priests in a row and settled them all. Then a low-odds Artist bulbed Music (had both Drama and Lit already) and the free Artist was settled. Third artist was also settled and then a GS went for an Academy.

Truckin' along nicely. Used my techs and excess gold to start a couple of brushfires amongst the AI

Then I started teching the middle line. CS, Paper and Edu. Lost Sweddy Piles by a couple of turns. Then I decided I would build the Globe before UoS (which was a lock although pretty useless).

So I built my theatre and then clicked on the wonder. Requires theatres (1/6). WTF? So then I checked the settings. This is not OCC???? WTF? Twice over!!

So I came back to the thread and was about to point it out when I discovered the BIG LETTERS in the opening post.

Initially my reaction was to rage-quit - which I did. After thinking about it a bit more, I have this notion that I'd like to continue. OCC w/o the option set? Interesting idea. I did this once on Noble but Emperor would be far more challenging. Just need to find a save file somewhere...

 

[happyturtle]

@Abegweit

Spoiler :

Ouch.

I'll need to dig around in the WB files and find out if I can make the OCC a setting in there, or if it has to be done in the Custom Game screen before next time. Winning without the OCC advantages would be pretty damn awesome though.

 

[coanda]

Just a question for the more experienced occ players, is it possible to ahieve a culture victory with an occ? I came across an article in the war academy that mentioned that it was impossible and that Firaxis needed to patch it out, as it was impossible due to the fact that you cannot get the three cities?

Prior to BtS 3.13, you could abuse the Apostolic Palace to get multiple cities in OCC, which in turn would let you get cultural. Now, Permanent Alliances (or a cooked WB start which gives you several cities off the bat) are your only options.

 

[cas]

@michmbk

Spoiler :

Yes, earliest library / academy is best with gold and some cottaged fp and river marble.

You can probably get Mids, but it is a gamble on emporer with 2 industrious civs...I met Ram and Hammy early. Still hadn't met 2-3 other civs so there was a chance of a 3rd IND civ out there. Sometimes you can gauge a little by how fast the AI is building stone wonders.

Going for earlier GLib/NE is NOT a gamble and uses those same forests you are chopping for Mids.

So I made a choice for the safe route. Just like I stayed out of a religion for a long time, even though it would speed up the builds (OR) or GPP (Philo) to be in one.

As I said in my initial post, my finish date is not the best. Can't really compare games on different levels though. Monarch I would have considered the Mids more. Prince or noble I would built them. Immortal and Deity...no way.

cas