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OCC Deity Space Race

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by metalhead, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    A hard proposition, to be sure, but it is doable, I think. Have to go with the Byzantines, because they're easily the best OCC civ. After a few maps, got one that looks promising because of the good production. Wasn't sure if the food would be enough, but from my initial calculations it looked like it would be. Lots of hills and mountains means a decent shot at getting some iron and/or saltpeter. But that's to worry about later; for now, just getting underway is the only worry.



    Exploring showed first some very bad news - I was neighbors with the Vikings, meaning I had to watch my defense. Fortunately, I had founded my city on a hill, so the likelihood of rebuffing an early attack was pretty high.

    The first order of business was the Colossus, which is not particularly easy to get on Deity - usually you have time to build maybe 3 units before starting it. I built a warrior, curragh, and another worker, and then began construction. My lone Curragh got somewhat lucky in its exploration, making contacts with the Persians, Spanish, and Zulu fairly early. This would be helpful for getting tech from the Great Library later on.

    Good news came as we won the race to the Colossus! Immediately, 2 more curraghs were built, then a granary and barracks, then spears for defense from the Vikings. Meanwhile, we pursued Writing at 10%. The goal was to get Writing at 10%, then go max research (with lux slider for happiness) on CoL and then Philosophy, but after getting Writing, the AI's had enough tech that we feared not getting Philosophy first, so instead we decided it would be wise to pursue Philosophy directly after Writing, and use it to get Literature to build the Great Libary.

    Amazingly enough, we got Philosophy first, and nabbed Literature. Even more amazingly, BOTH advances netted us a Scientific Great Leader!

     
  2. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Since we now had Philosophy, the next order of business was the Mausoleum of Mausollos, which would be a cinch. Building this wonder would trigger our Golden Age, which would really only be useful for building the Great Library quicker. We decided to abandon research at this point, allowing for the Great Library to do our research for us. We had traded Alphabet and Writing around early, and once we got Iron Working, we discovered iron right next to our capital! This would be crucial, as we could sense a Viking attack in the not too distant future.

    Once the Mausoleum finished, and our Golden Age began, we decided that having a couple of Swordsmen would be absolutely crucial to have. It didn't take long to find out that our suspicions were correct - the greedy Vikings had their sights set on our destruction. We barely even had time to build one swordsmen, when they showed up to spoil the party.



    The Vikings obviously had not hooked up any iron yet, and their force was surprisingly meager, for deity. They impaled several warriors and archers on my spearmen, with my ever-growing swordsmen corps mopping up any who dared fortify in the mountains around Constantinople. After 10 turns or so of this garbage, the Vikings were losing what little steam they had, and were willing to talk peace. I just ended the war, but I had the feeling they would be back. They left an archer fortified in my territory after the war ended, but I just let it be.

    In the meantime, the money and techs were slowly rolling in after the war ended and we could construct the Great Library. We were forced to continue building units, gobbling up a good chunk of our profits in support costs. Our curraghs had managed to make contact with the rest of our opponents, which was very good news, because this would keep us at the top end of the tech race. The map generator had been very kind to us as well - the civs were pretty well isolated from each other, and our seafaring trait made us reach them all while they each only knew 2 or 3 others.

    The good news was, our position allowed for us to repel invaders from taking our city. The bad news was, our military was insufficient to protect our tile improvements, meaning that any invasion would pillage our improvements that took centuries to build. And as it turned out, the Vikings were not content to leave well enough alone - they came again in the BCs.



    This time, though, we weren't going to take it lying down. The Vikings had began construction on the Statute of Zeus, meaning that a future invasion would include ancient cavalry. Iron meant that this time, I had medieval infantry to fight back with, as I had received Feudalism shortly before and had plenty of money to upgrade my swords. I saw an ivory source at Stockholm, right across the border. They had more anyway, so cutting it off wouldn't halt the Statue of Zeus, but after repelling another meager force, I sent some medieval infantry down there to teach them a much-needed lesson.



    This being a OCC meant razing of course, which also meant that the Vikings would be furious with me for the rest of the game. Whatever, they could be mad all they wanted. They had been a constant thron in my side from the outset. Dispatching that town and several of their units made Ragnar ready to capitulate, and in surprising fashion as well.



    I made in error in immediately disbanding one of the towns - I should have gifted them both to another civ, but had gone ahead and disbanded one before I thought of it. No matter, the other city went to the Persians.
     
  3. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    For awhile, little happened. Just a lot of sitting back, collecting techs from the Great Library, and money from taxes. Waiting for the Vikings to try another strike, backed with ancient cavalry. We had decided that it would be beneficial to construct some fortresses, and station pikes on the mountainous terrain surrounding Constantinople as a deterrant. We knew the Vikings would not be deterred for too long, but hopefully we could beat them back more efficiently this way, with their ancient cavalry impaling themselves on our pikes in the mountainous terrain.



    As it turned out, that was exactly what happened. With the aid of dromons and trebuchets bombarding, their ancient cavalry were turned back in their third attack on us. We were dismayed to see that they had an ample supply of muskets by this time, which made them even more efficient at pillaging our tiles, but their invasion amounted to little more than that. Our pikes fortified in the mountains even managed to take on a few Berserks with little trouble. After a large margin of victory unit-wise, Ragnar was once again going to capitulate. The swine was terrible at invading, considering his enemy (us) had one measly city, and it must have been pretty damn embarrassing for him to have to keep paying tribute to us, but he did.



    As for tech, the Great Library netted us up to Chemistry on the bottom path before it ran out. This was a great development, because saltpeter appeared on a mountain inside our territory! Several pikes were immediately upgraded at this point. Also, we were able to take full advantage of the other civ's isolation. We had not been able to make much of a prebuild on Copernicus' Observatory, and ended up having to steal Astronomy in order to build it. But steal, we did, and after it and a university were built, it was tech brokering time. We directed our research for Physics and Theory of Gravity in order to get Newton's University.

    Physics and some cash netted us Banking, and we held a monopoly on Thoery of Gravity up until Newton's University was no longer in doubt. Some crafty tech trading got us into the next age - Theory of Gravity was traded for Magnetism, and then we got Democracy and Metallurgy for Theory of Gravity and Democracy, from Persia, putting us both in the Industrial Age at the same time. We got Nationalism; they got Steam Power. Score! We immediately made the swap. We noticed the Russians were well behind, but decided to see if we could manage to get Medicine as well, and gifted them into the Industrial Age. As luck would have it, they did! We now had all of the first tier Industrial techs, and more importantly, riflemen which would completely secure us from the Cavalry seen running around Viking territory.

    The presence of the scientific leaders allowed us to make a run at Shakespeare's Theater. We began research on Free Artistry, with the research to be completed one turn before completion on Newton's. As soon as Newton's was built, we used a leader to rush Shakespeare's Theater.



    At this time, as is obvious from the picture, the Iroquois launched a weak-ass attack on us, with a spearman, archer, and longbowman. Our riflemen laughed their asses off repelling this attack. Who cares? We got peace a few short turns later - we didn't get anything, but it was better than them dragging the rest of the world into a war against us.

    Our industrial priority was Replaceable Parts. We got Electricity before everyone, and traded it around for quite a profit. Chances were excellent we would not have rubber, but the speedy workers alone would make the tech a boon for us. It was at this point that the AI began showing signs of starting to tech up faster than we could deal with. Fortunately, it was also at this time that the AI began incessant warring that would last the rest of the game, significantly slowing down the tech pace. I confess to playing a part in this, as the Vikings attacked me yet again, only this time I brought the Persians, French, and Spanish into the war on my side. A couple towns changed hands, the AI razed a couple more, and that sealed the constant state of war.

    As you can see, trading can be quite profitable :D



    After getting Replaceable Parts, and having gotten Industrialization as part of a trade for Electricity, we wanted to get The Corporation before trying for the Theory of Evolution. The AI had gotten a decent head start on Universal Suffrage, and when it was completed, the French had already researched Scientific Method. They were able to cascade down to Theory of Evolution, but not complete it. We still had 7 turns to go on researching Scientific Method, and an investigation showed the French only 2 turns away from completing this wonder. We immediately had to buy Theory of Evolution from the French, and use our other leader to rush construction. We chose to learn Atomic Theory and Electronics, and after trades of The Corporation, Scientific Method, and Refining, we were doing even better in the money department. We had also traded for rubber with, of all people, Ragnar, and so had some Infantry running around.

     
  4. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Our beeline for Motorized Transportation was well underway. After getting Combustion and Mass Production, it looked like smooth sailing to our spaceship. But then something, well, not necessarily unexpected, but certainly annoying happened. The Vikings came calling for a fifth time. But this time, they seemed ready to put a real hurting on us. A large stack of around 35 cavalry parked right outside of Constantinople, with a lumbering force totalling well over 60 guerillas and infantry came into our territory. The message was clear - without some deft planning, our territory would be ruined. We had plenty of infantry to defend Constantinople with, but defending our now completely improved territory from a thorough pillaging seemed to be difficult indeed.

    The first order of business was cutting off any possible escape for the cavalry which retreated from attacking Constantinople. Our 30-some-odd Infantry would have no problem rebuffing the attack - fortified on a hill in a metropolis with a Civil Defense built, our infantry would be defending vs. 6 attack at over 25 defense.



    Idiotically, Ragnar directed every unit to attack. Not a single defender was lost, and while only 7 or 8 cavalry died without retreating, the rest of the redlined cavalry were slaughtered, as they had nowhere to go upon retreating. The remaining large stack of infantry were the bigger concern. They could do some serious damage if they attacked in big enough numbers. Fortunately, though, AI commanders are incredibly stupid. Our first move was to use a lot of the gold we had saved up to enlist the Persians, French, and Iroquois again to fight the Vikings. Next, however, was deflecting the stack. We realized that the AI would always go for open territory, so to keep them moving endlessly back and forth, we first opened up a path through the mountains, and then closed it off, leaving another pass open over the flood plains.

    The AI put up a good fight, and at several points, attempted to attack our forces in the mountains en masse. We lost a good deal of units, probably around 10 or so, but probably killed at least five times that amount of enemy infantry and guerillas. We were able to negotiate for peace after 12 turns of war, but decided to honor agreements and not piss off our allies who we paid to join the war effort. Once Viking tanks began showing up, we had to use our 20 artillery pieces to bombard their rail system across the border, to significantly slow their progress. We faced maybe 10 tanks, a couple of which reached the walls of Constantinople, but fortunately had no problem taking them out with artillery and infantry.

    A view of the battlefield, post-rail destruction. The AI had split up their stack into several smaller ones, and our infantry were spread pretty thin, but fortunately for us, the AI seemed very unwilling to attack our mountained or fortressed infantry with their own.



    As you can see, we had to stop military production in the middle of the war to ensure construction of the SETI Program. Not that it mattered much - the Vikings had been giving us rubber, so all we were able to build were more artillery. The SETI Program came fairly early, as Computers was the free tech given us upon reaching the modern age.

    As you can see here, modern age research was going to be slow going. Fortunately, the AI was in total war mode throughout the modern age.

     
  5. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Our modern age research goals were to get techs before the AI - which meant going after techs sooner than the AI normally would. This strategy served us very well - Nuclear Power, Satellites, and The Laser were both tech monopolies that we were able to exploit for our own gain. In order to ensure we could get all 10 spaceship parts built first, though, we were required to steal Synthetic Fibers from Xerxes, and Superconductor from Joan, in order to preserve our monopolies rather than trade them away and risk the AI overtaking us in the Space Race. We had the money to do so safely, and though both attempts failed on the first try, neither precipitated a war.

    In the end, the last tech we needed was Robotics, which we were the first to reach. We had gained a military leader during the intense fighting with the Vikings, and used it to rush our final spaceship part, though it would have only taken 3 turns to build, which would have been accomplished easily. As our spaceship blasted off into the great unknown, we watched in shock and amazement - never, even on lower levels, have we been able to survive such persistent attacks from our enemies. The Vikings attacked us five times, the Persians and Iroquois each once, and yet still, Byzantine cunning and ingenuity took the day.



     
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  6. madviking

    madviking north american scum

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    :wow:
    wow... :thumbsup:
     
  7. CoolioVonHoolio

    CoolioVonHoolio Quit WoW, back to Civ.

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    :goodjob: that was a great game. you and mathias are the best at OCC ive ever seen.
     
  8. shady milkman

    shady milkman eternal

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    Damn good...550 commerce in Constantinople at the end of the game?? Amazing...
     
  9. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    HOLY CRAP!!! Unbeleivable.
     
  10. MeteorPunch

    MeteorPunch #WINNING Supporter

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    Very good game. Could you list the improvements built in the city?
     
  11. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Improvements:

    Palace
    Barracks
    Granary
    Library
    Harbor
    Marketplace
    University
    Bank
    Factory
    Stock Exchange
    Commercial Dock
    Civil Defense
    Airport
    Research Lab
    Mass Transit
    Nuclear Plant*
    Offshore Platform

    *Coal Plant and Hydro Plant were built prior to this

    Small Wonders:

    Apollo Program
    Intelligence Agency

    Great Wonders:

    The Colossus
    Mausoleum of Mausollos
    The Great Library
    Copernicus' Observatory
    Shakespeare's Theater
    Newton's University
    Theory of Evolution
    SETI Program
     
  12. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    Very nice. I guess I'm gonna have to go for it on Sid, then? I'll have to think about that one. I'll need a very different strategy than the powerful tourism I used on Emperor.
     
  13. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    I really don't think Sid is possible. I haven't tried it yet, but I think that even getting the Colossus would be damn near impossible - it's hard enough just getting it on Deity.

    I was impressed that you got that many wonders on Emperor. I usually get the ancient ones I had in this game, plus either the Lighthouse or the Hanging Gardens. Deity requires a lot of clawing and wars to be successful - the Vikings would have been a cinch to pull away in this game if they didn't keep attacking everybody, me included. They did me a huge favor, though - I'd say that 75% of Deity games end in either a missed Colossus, missed Observatory, missed Newt's, or a runaway AI. Several others end in an early or middle ages conquest. I've won maybe 10% of the Deity OCC games I've tried playing beyond 4000 BC, and I count maybe 4 OCC Deity wins in my HOF. I've considered a run at Sid, but it admittedly takes some luck to win at Deity. Mine in this game consisted of AI isolation until Navigation and constant wars in the industrial and modern ages, although it is possible for the player to at least keep the wars coming.
     
  14. Mathias

    Mathias OCC Rocks!

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    I certainly have my doubts. I'll give it a shot next week nonetheless.
     
  15. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    Great game! :) You've done it once again.

    You and Mathias are the kings of OCC. :king:
     
  16. MrMahk

    MrMahk Chieftain

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    wow yeah really nice job :goodjob: - i have tried a couple of OCCs on low difficulties and i get destroyed, i dont know how you guys do it but i am impressed

    ps - simpsons = :king:
     
  17. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    Nice OCC. Your conquest victory inspired me to try OCCing, and now half of my games are played OCC. It's crazy how you can win at Deity. I've never done better than a cultural mon. victory.
     
  18. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    I think for sid pointy stick research and brokering? That's all I could think of.
     
  19. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

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    Very good game. The two early SGLs certainly helped a lot. I would not consider this start the best considering the volcano.
     
  20. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Actually, believe it or not, the SGLs weren't crucial to winning. All they did was make sure I got Shake's, and let me research The Corporation before Scientific Method.

    The volcano was definitely cause for concern, but it didn't erupt all game, and I was willing to give it a go because of the massive food bonuses which were very helpful early in the game.
     

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