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Occc

Discussion in 'Civ2 - General Discussions' started by starlifter, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    4,212
    This thread is about OCCC. It began as some comments in this thread: OCC size1 by Major Advantage. I've separated my OCCC comments, since it was actually an OCC-SS thread.


    NOTES/TERMINOLOGY

    SS: Space Ship
    OCC: One City Challenge
    OCC SS: One City Challenge, SpaceShip (or "landing) game. Note: the normal context of nearly all references you will see is that OCC is a Landing (SS) game; I post with the SS, since my posts may often not be clear which one the topic is about.
    OCC-20: This is one city, with unrestricted size. 20 refers to the base number of tiles that a village can cover, since the upper size limit is variable for a given location in OCC.
    OCC-4: This is a fun variant of the original OCC; one good map to try this on for the first time is Four Whales (by Sten Sture).
    OCC-1: One city, size 1. Landings are certainly possible!

    OCCC: One City Challenge, Conquer. You are never ever allowed to possess a 2nd city for any reason, but can of course (and must) raze villages. You win when the AI is conquered, not necessarily when all villages in the world are destroyed. Barbarians can control a village(s) in some games.
    OCCC-20: Full size city, playing OCCC.
    OCCC-4: City cannot exceed size 4.
    OCCC-1: City must remain size 1 for the entire game.

    Paulicy - The original guide for OCC (SS landings).
    Ali's OCC Guide - A new, updated OCC (SS) guide in current development. When completed, Ali Ardavan's guide is expected to replace the 12 year old Paulicy as "the" OCC Guide for SS landings, and the Paulicy will be an appendix.




    OCCC General Comments
    Many of the things that one would "normally" look at or do in an OCCC are "counter-intuitive" (at least the way I play it) to "normal" OCC's (OCC-SS)... and normal OCC-SS games are themselves counter-intuitive to "normal" Civ-2 games. Finally, an OCCC-1 (or even OCCC-4) game are a bit different than an 20 in terms of some game choices and priorities. In short, each of the 6 variations of OCC-x (SS/Conquer at 20/4/1 size limits) have play variations that are interesting. By far, the SS style is more popular, and OCC Conquer is rarely if ever subject of postings.

    If people want to try OCCC, its probably best for a player to gain familiarity with OCC-SS games first, and then try an OCCC-20 game before plowing into an OCCC-4/1 (which can be quite challenging). Unlike GOTMs or even OCC-SS, its very possible that one will lose OCCC games spectacularly. OCCC games are usually quite a bit longer (both in real time, and game win date) than OCC-SS games (the 2020 limit is often a looming factor). There are maps/sizes and starting situations that cannot produce a win (even with 100% "perfect play"), esp. with the 4/1 variants.

    Players can use the general rules of the Paulicy to play an OCCC, but many of the recommendations, build orders, tech researches, etc. are majority changed. The overriding rule is simple, however: You can never ever possess a 2nd village. Raze, dont own, villages. Save before entering a hut, and reload if its an AT (Advanced Tribe).

    Time
    On "average", OCCC games can take 3 to 4 times as long as OCC (SS landing) games. Too many careless errors can easily accumulate/multiply and push an OCCC game past the 2020 completion date, and there is a premium on truly squeezing every benefit from each gold, shield, beaker, terrain square, and AI... especially in OCCC-4 and OCCC-1 games.
     
  2. RedKi-rr

    RedKi-rr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    512
    Actually, I couldn't even imagine how to win OCCC-1 even with a perfect starting position. You need a lot of troops/spies to destroy some AI. You need bombard/poison water to get size to size1, and at the same time you need to kill many AI's troops. Well, I mean Deity level. Probably you also consider Deity as default level..)

    On other hand - what to do if a city was flipped by culture? This possible at least in civ1 and you can't raze it.

    And to avoid reloading it's possible to completely avoid huts. At least for full OCC games.

    BtW, how is possible to play OCCC in civ1? Destroy walls with diplomats, bombard (occupay all tiles) to city to size 1 and capture?
    I tried OCCC in civ1, but it was very very soft vesrsion - I never can BUILD more than one city. Actually here there are now much differs from a normal game (at least, there should be restriction on diplomats for competetive play).
     
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,834
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    There is no such thing in Civ2; that is a Civ4 concept.
     
  4. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
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    This is Civilization II (2)...

    You cannot "culture flip", that began in Civ III.

    I've never tried OCC in any form, in Civ I. It won't work the same most likely, since the designer of Civ I (Sid Meier) is different than Civ II (Brian Reynolds, who was extending Civ I and using new programming).

    It is possible to play and win any OCC-x game due to the way the Civ 2 project leader/designer/programmer (Brian) implemented his Rubber Band philosophy to adjust the game to challenge the player, dynamically. An unanticipated consequence of this design philosophy is that in the reverse extreme case, the Human is aided (or tecnically does not necessarily have as strong disadvantages) according to the metrics of how the game determines player power. It actually speaks pretty well of the base design that the purpose of Civ 2 (which is "fun") is fulfilled in unintended ways.
     
  5. RedKi-rr

    RedKi-rr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    512
    Interesting notes about civ2...) Espesially about its deep desing. I begin to play in civ2 recenly, and find OCC games as optimal for real time/for strategy and develompent approached. Before I did play civ1 OCC games. The difference is considerable.

    "Culture flip" is possible in civ1 too. But the way is differ from civ3-4. When you celebrating in city an "uncultured" AI's city can join you. And this looks like you diplomat bribed it.
     

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