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OCCC1- One city Conquest

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Kulko, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    We may try 13269.sav and remove our AI from the list. With editor and play deity or "in game" on Demigod.
     
  2. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    I have got a few more Demigod starts. This time should also be without barbarians.
     

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  3. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i tested them and would say you have got 3 playable saves:
    00013988 and 00014706 are very strong, 00014804 is still good.

    t_x
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    13988:



    14706:



    14804:



    My favorite is 14706. Three cows!! :eek: I never got a start like this in my life. With 7fpt we can go without granary.

    Let Ivan increase the difficulty level to Deity and then let's go... :D
     
  5. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    OK, will we wait more players?
    Who will start? Will we play without Sci AI?
    How we will get BW?
     
  6. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    How do you see three cows? Fog gazing or did you play a few turns? Anyway you should search a bit more for your starts, I played at least two different 4 cow starts already.

    And please lets stay at DG.

    @ivan we have been looking for players for 3 month now so I do not expect anybody to show up.
     
  7. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    I am willing to start provided we have agreed on not raising the difficulty or any other adaptions you guys might want. I would start going ship ship worker worker?

    As for Sci I thought we dont want them. BW should easily be around by the time we get most of our contacts and if we need it earlier it wont help us if an AI has it which we haven't contacted yet.
     
  8. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    If we are alone at island, DG is too simple for me. I prefer Deity. Also I'd remove militaristic AIs and put religious instead.
     
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    You need a better monitor (or new glasses...) :D



    You want 4 cows? Come on, don't be too afraid! That will be much too easy. We are already doing quite a lot of tweaking, using automated tools for finding perfect starts, picking the opponents and letting others double check the start for unpleasant surprises... Hey, it needs to be a bit challenging too! What's the fun, if we know in the advance that we will win?

    Yesterday I fired up a little test game, Regent, random everything and got the following start (picture from 3050BC):



    Lousy start, no food, no production. The game was easy anyway. I built a stack of 4 archers, then went and captured Washington (an American scout had appeared from the north in the first turns), and then the game started from scratch again (ok, the Americans had already built some improvements for me and connected two luxes, and I had a couple of workers to bring Washington back to size immediately).
    Despite the huge delay of relocating the capital, Washington still got all the necessary wonders (except MoM), and the game went according to plan.
    Ok, this was only Regent, but with these super-starts we have (especially the 3-cow start) Deity will feel like Regent too...

    We can't search for the perfect start forever, the point must come, where we just start, and if we lose we lose. (But usually I've learned more from lost games than won games. It'll make you a tough player!)
     
  10. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Thats not what I meant. I just said, that 3 cow starts are not that seldom on small setting, if you look for good maps for a while. I am perfectly fine with playing the one we got.

    OTOH I do not understand what you mean to prove by your regent example? Anyway I would just like to start.

    If both of you think we must play deity for this to be fun than so be it, anlthough I believe its not winnable anymore. I am against using religious AIs as they will just gain back the cities we have gifted to another AI via cultural flip and gain troops on top of it.

    So my feeling is patch the start up to deity if we must and then lets get started.
     
  11. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    :yup:
     
  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Ah, I misunderstood you.

    It was just a quick and dirty test game for me to get a feeling for this strategy. So far everything was only "theory" and I wanted to see how it works in practice but didn't want to invest too much time. After I saw how easy it went on Regent even with a lousy start (the Zulus for example had a cow and a wheat and got quite strong), I gained more confidence for Deity. I'm not saying I'm sure we'll win on Deity, but we have good chances. Let's say a 50-50 chance.

    Now you are talking business! :goodjob:
     
  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, I assume we are starting with 14706? I can't remember what AIs you put into it, but I don't care, let's just use the ones we got now.
    I.Larkin, do you want the first turn set? We need a perfect start sequence, and also you are the only one who knows how to change the difficulty level.

    I think, the early plan should be something like (first draft)

    • Growth: hit size 2 at turn 6, 3 at 11, 4 at 15, 5 at 18, 6 at 21, then build 5 workers in turns 22-36, reach 7 at turn 39 and pump up to 12 in turn 40. That leaves one worker for a lux colony. If we have another lux on our island, build one more worker and hit size 12 in turn 43.
    • Build order: what can we build until we reach size 6? Too lazy for a precise calculation, but my estimate is that we have something between 80 and 100 shields until turn 21. So I would guess two curraghs, 1-2 warriors and a temple? Do we need a second early worker?
      At the moment I see only 9spt at size 6, but let's hope for another BG in the fog, then we'll have 10spt and can build archer-worker in a three-turn cycle. Initial curraghs and warriors can be disbanded at some point. At turn 40 we start with the Colossus, then perhaps a library and then the Lighthouse?! (But that's still too far ahead, much can happen till then...)
    • Research: full Republic sling, as fast as possible!

    Of course things need to be changed as we go. Just remember Clausewitz: "No battle plan survives the first contact with the enemy..."
     
  14. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I prefer Archer.
    How we get temple if we have no rel AI? Do we really need it?

    Normally it is hard to get full sling at Deity. For reliable win I prefer scheme as we used at SGTOM Portugal. But we need religious AIs for that.

    Why you want to stay at size 6?

    Regardless of AIs we may try to calculate optimal build order for 20-30 turns now.
     
  15. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Me too. But it depends on how many shields we have before we reach size 6 and go into the 3-turn cycle. They are meant only for initial inland-scouting and military police. If we have enough shields, we can do archers instead

    Good question. :blush: We can also build barracks.

    I remember that one... Monarchy in 1910 BC...!! But in that game we had 24 opponents, here we have only 5. Are you sure we can count on any of them getting Polytheism in time?
    And I still favor Republic: in the beginning, when we have only few units, it will be vastly superior to Monarchy, and we'll reach Invention much faster. We need to hit the first AIs pretty early, before they become too big. As this game is basically a "race against the clock", I think we should go for Rep.

    It's the only way to reach size 12 at turn 40... ;)

    Do we settle in place? I see no reason to move. So we could do that now and discuss the complete start location.
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    PS: and if one AI really gets Polytheism, how will we be able to buy it with the income of just one city?!
     
  17. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Here it is
     

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  18. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Here is my suggestion. It doesnt waste anything until turn 24 when we build a archer for 21 shields and then a warrior for 14. But I cant figure out a way to switch one shield into the next build cycle.

    Build order would be:
    Curragh,worker, Curragh, curragh, archer, archer, Warrior,
    and then curragh worker until we find and mine the necessary BG to go archer worker.
     

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  19. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Did yo take into account 2 sch from forest when grow?

    I think we need only 2 Curraghs. And Worker instead of Warrior.
     
  20. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    @ Forest Yep.

    @ Curraghs Well in the long term we need ships for transportation. so I rather build a few ships without overrun then building more archers for 23 shields. All of them cost upkeep, and all of them cost must be upgraded before use.

    @ Worker: Fine with that.Of course it redu ces city size afterwards, but I will try to see where this leeads us.

    PS: Actually I am pretty convoinced, unless we find somebody who sells us a useful tech for this period, the best thing would be to go Wealth Wealth Worker for a few turns, until we have enough workers to go to size 12 fast. Building more archers/ Curraghs in this phase just drains cash rather spend on Research.
     

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