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OCCC1- One city Conquest

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Kulko, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I am not sure that IW trade was good decision. Now things "not good". Sure, we will get "all" from Glib. Not understand curragh disband. We may return and scout our Island better. May be other lux exists.

    Sure, Phylo now...
     
  2. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    We were desperately low on cash. The curraghs were far away from home and the small island can be scouted by our archers much faster. No need to pay -2gpt all the time...

    Ok, I continue with Philo. After my turnset we can then think about what free-tech we will take.
     
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    T34, cont: science to 70%. Philosophy

    T35: Worker -> Wealth.
    Reduce lux to 10% (can use roaded river tile instead of forest during Wealth).
    Find another Dyes.

    America knows Writing now as well.

    T36: America starts Colossus, Mongolia starts Pyramids.

    T37: Wealth -> worker

    T38: Worker -> Wealth.
    The Zimbabwe completes the Colossus. The Incas start Pyramids.

    T40: America starts Pyramids and Oracle.
    Wealth -> worker. Reduce science to 40%

    This will be our last worker, then we can start a wonder prebuild and join workers back in, as the improvements get finished. Let's hope the Pyramids won't be finished before we get Philo!
     
  4. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    did you check whether you would have made Col? it seems not.
    t_x
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    If we had switched right in T22, when the Zulus started, we would have needed 180s between T23 and T38. That's 11.25 spt. At that point we were making 8spt and had 3 workers. We would have to finish a few mines quickly and then join the workers back in, then we might just barely make it to the necessary 13spt. But it would completely stop our research: no roads, no luxes connected yet and high lux-rate for keeping a size 10 city happy. It would have been a big sacrifice. We'd probably lose Philo and get totally slowed down.
    Now we'll have a qreat size 12 city with 23spt and 28gpt in just a handful of turns and can quickly build MoM, Lib, GLib, LH, Market.
     
  6. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Zulu have 28 gpt and will finish MM in 8-9 turns. Unlikely that we will have LH.

    Later we may try to arrange MA vs them, but I am not sure if America at the same island.

    Got it, but don't know when will play.
     
  7. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Do we want Phylo ASAP or will try to get something in trade IBT?
     
  8. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I would say asap. No risk, and we need a wonder, if the Pyramids get built. If we pick Literature, we can first build a lib, and then have two wonders we can build or use as prebuilds: MoM and GLib.
     
  9. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I don't thik we need Lib if we have GLIB.
    We first at Phylo.
    Suggestions?
    Zulu started Lighthouse
     

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  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Even with GLib we need to research to Republic, not?!

    Don't know which one is more important: GLib will save lots of gold, but I think, the AI will soon slow down in research.
    LH makes our ships un-attackable until Astronomy and allows lux trading. But with 3 luxes, MoM and a temple will we need more luxes?! Yes, 3 more unhappy people. So two more luxes can't hurt?! But what if the AIs "refuse" to build harbors... Perhaps a Cathedral is worth it?!

    Ulundi is not the capital, so perhaps we still have a good chance at GLib and LH?

    Anything could be wrong here. I would pick Literature, then build MoM, then Lib, then GLib and forget about LH. Research CoL and Rep asap and get the rest of the AA from GLib. Then research again to Invention (or if the AI is really fast, we can still adjust and store cash instead of researching).
     
  11. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    I would rather try stopping research all together and saving cash. Taking lit and buildings GLib is fine with me
     
  12. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    but the AS may take forever until they research Rep for you... or did you decide to go Monarch after all?

    another approach would be to skip GLib and keep trading plus pointy stick research. you want to cut the AS down anyway, don´t you? then MoM, TGL and a lib (in case you still choose Lit) and a temple would be my choice. no more troops now is important, i think you got too many already for the moment given.

    GLib ist fine, but what do you want to do with all the money? of course you could upgrade archers like crazy for it, but then, for how long do you want them standing around?

    saying this, I believe TGL is more important than GLib. thus if available i may go like MoM-TGL-GLib wonder-wise.

    Col would *really* have been nice, but that one is always risky on these levels.

    t_x
     
  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Basically I agree with templar. That's why I wanted to build a library: waiting for two AI to research Republic will take ages and ages! And all that time we can do nothing with our cash. So let's assume we research Rep ourselves, then the GLib is not that useful anymore: we can also get all the other techs by trading.

    Last night I've been thinking about the following somewhat "risky" idea:

    • Pick CoL.
    • Trade Philo + CoL for MM and hope that another size-1 Zulu town will start MoM.
    • Build TGLH. Hope that Zimbabwe finishes the Pyramids and therefore does not switch to MoM or TGLH.
    • Then build MoM, before the small Zulu town gets it.
    • Meanwhile we research Literature, build a library and then research Republic. Or we could do a 50-turn run for Republic? (What are the tech prices? Can we do Lit+Rep faster than 50 turns anyway?!)
      Also we can still start GLib and if we get it, ok, if not, it's no big deal, we just switch to Zeus in that case.

    Update, tech prices:
    - Literature 333. Current income is 23gpt, we can max out at 26-27 gpt, let's assume 25gpt on average, so that would be 13-14 turns.
    - Republic 933. With a lib we max out at 39bpt, so that would be 24 turns.

    So if things go optimal, we need 38 turns. The two workers will quickly connect two wine resources, so we will have no unit upkeep from then on. But happiness will be an issue for a long time. It'll be 20 turns before we can have MoM. So my guess is, that we can't get Rep in below 50 turns anyway, so we may as well do min-run on it.
     
  14. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I disagree with T_x and Lantelot. Republic and Monarchy approximately equal for us. Also, I do not see big advantage in TGLH. We may arrange ship chain...
    also, I think that SoZ better them MM.

    we may use cash to arrange AIs fight. Embassy +gpt...
     
  15. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    lurker's comment: i am only lurking... but i did not say anything about Mon/Rep - in fact i do believe it does not matter a lot here, just as you say.
    SoZ is ok, but probably you have got the only ivory anyway, so no planning required for that. TGL is easy though, IT SAVES A LOT OF SHIPS. with only 1 city, you will be drowning in troop support anyway, that is why i believe the Lighthouse will be good for you. as for MoM, it will save lux tax or happy buildings.
    t_x
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    And it protects our ships from AI attack: we can always leave them on sea squares. Just imagine losing a galley filled with two Berzerks... 170 shields as fodder for the fish... :(
    So I do think that TGLH is very valuable for us.

    Ok, Republic and Monarchy probably don't matter that much. Important is only that we get one of them asap. And I think Rep can be had faster: only one more tech, while to Monarchy it's still 4 techs.

    MoM is ok, because we don't have anything else to build anyway, until we reach Invention... (Unless we want to pay 100gpt unit upkeep...)
    (And as templar already said: SoZ will not run away, we seem to have a monopoly on ivory!)
     
  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    PS: another reason, why we need Republic: we want to gift a few cities and re-take them in order to "paralyze the AI with war weariness". For this we need to gift Republic to the AI before our attack...
     
  18. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    All these arguments are slim. Basically we will pay 1266 g to have Republic 15-20 turns earlier.

    Sure, TGLH is nice to have, but only AFTER GLIB.
    I think very soon AIs will come to our Island and we will fight at our land.
    It will be nice to finish GLIB and SoZ before that.
    Or even better to arrange war IBT Zulu and Aztecs.
    and help with this fight.
     
  19. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, perhaps you misunderstood my argument: after calculating the tech prices, I advocate a 50-turn min run on Republic. Of course not full research. My argument was only about "Monarchy or Republic?", where I still favor Rep.

    Min run will give us the cash to see, who has contact, and forment some wars.

    If we don't build TGLH now, the Zulus will finish it! But nobody has Literature yet, so there's a good chance that we can build both.
    Afterwards we can decide, whether we still have time for SoZ before GLib or need to do GLib right away.

    (Perhaps we can even let the AI build the GLib and then do something like:
    • Take GLib town, when an enemy unit is next to our capital, and keep it.
    • In the interturn, the enemy will capture Trondheim, so we are still "OCC"...
    • Next turn we take Trondheim back and disband the GLib town.
    • Hopefully the damage won't be too big and we'll lose only the temple and one pop point.
    ??)
     
  20. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    We have no MMaking to build TGLH.
    After all it is not "end" if we miss it.
    Loses of missing GLIB much more severe.
    I assume that we take Lit and continue to build "wonder" with min research of CoL.
    Then will see.

    This is not wise, to many "ifs"
     

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