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[NFP] October Update Video Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Laurana Kanan, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:00 AM.

  1. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon King

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    Farms on snow and desert in my opinion should be able if:
    1. As a part of unique Civilization ability
    2. After reaching some technology (Plastics for example)
    3. Building should cost extra gold.

    As for Neighborhoods here is my idea to improve it:
    1. They should have distinct architecture styles (similar do the cities European, American, Asian, Middle East etc,)
    2. They should have two building slots of your choice if housing is 4 and three slots if housing is 5 or higher
    3. Those buildings should be workable and generate GP points as well to strengthen tall strategies
    4. They should be able to build much earlier. (Guilds similar to Mbanza)
    5. Some buildings in Neighborhoods should have two tiers (Tier 1 since Medieval Era Tier 2 since Modern Era). Tier 2 buildings should be available after unlocking technology. Upgrading building to Tier 2 if you have already Tier 1 building built should be significantly cheaper.
    6. There should be far more buildings we can build in a Neighborhood. It should be the player who decides what building he wants in a specific Neighborhood
    Growth (food income) Tier 1 Food Market Tier 2 Supermarket (additional yields if adjacent to 2 farms)
    Science (science income) Tier 1 School Tier 2 Technological Park (additional yields if the city has Campus)
    Culture (culture, income) Tier 1 Jugglers Camp Tier 2 press publishing house (additional yields if the city has Theater Square)
    Loyalty, counter Espionage Tier 1 Dungeon Tier 2 Police Station (additional yields if the city has Encampment)
    Faith (faith income) Tier 1 Chapel (minor additional yields if the city has Holy Site, mayor additional yields if the city follow your religion)
    Production (production income) Tier 1 Tavern Tier 2 Mass transport (additional yields if the city has Industrial Zone or Harbor)
    Additional housing (does not affect the number of available building slots) Tier 1 Herbalist Tier 2 Hospital
    Tourism (tourism income) Tier 2 Hotel (additional yields if the city has Wonder, the National Park, or Seaside Resort)
    Amenities Tier 1 Market Faires Tier 2 Park (additional yields if the city has Entertainment Complex)

    What we could earn:
    1. Make Neighborhoods more usable
    2. Provide a tool for tall strategies
    3. Make your cities more flexible
    4. More graphical improvements
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020 at 7:31 PM
    Cpt Chaos, criZp, Elhoim and 8 others like this.
  2. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I do like the idea however maybe that's too many buildings to choose from. :crazyeye:

    I'd narrow it down a little and choose maybe 1 building. I also think it's fine staying in the Industrial Era.

    For buildings I would do these in addition to the Food Market (food) and Shopping Mall (amenities, tourism, and gold):
    Public School (for science)
    Cinema (for culture)
    Police Station (for Loyalty, Espionage counter)
    Public Transit (for production)
    Fire Station (Neighborhood Protection from Natural Disasters)
    Hospital (additional housing, maybe faith from Holy Site/religion)
    Fallout Shelter (Neighborhood protection from nuclear attack) :shifty:
     
  3. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    IIRC Civ 5 has this, although AI and the player nuking each other is more common in Civ 5 than Civ 6.

    Also, since neighborhood only unlock late into the game, their bonuses should be large enough to worth the investment (currently the only mid/late district/tier 3 building that are really worth the cost is the Water Park, if we don't count things like Spaceport or Royal Society).
     
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  4. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon King

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    That's the point.
    Besides a hotel as a building thematically fit much better for tourism than a shopping mall.
    But I like the idea of Fire Station :)
     
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  5. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I'd love the idea of a Hotel actually in the Aerodrome instead to make it not just about producing aircraft units for military purposes.
     
  6. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    Maybe for simplification, Neighborhoods should provide adjacency bonuses to specialty districts? If this needs a bit more spice, the adjacency bonus could scale as +0.5 adjacency bonus per 1 housing provided by the Neighborhood. I don't know how folks would feel about a whole +1 adjacency bonus per 1 housing lol, that might get out of hand.

    Edit: Or maybe as a way to allow +1 adjacency per 1 housing provided, tie that bonus to an economic policy card. I don't know if it should go on Public Transport, but I'd definitely slot PT and build NBs more often if I can get crazy adjacency bonuses with them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020 at 11:27 PM
  7. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    That's why I think the entire yield system built around a citizen consuming 2 food isn't ideal - it doesn't allow enough granularity in terrain yields. Imagine every pop consuming 3 or 4, while every other food source is increased by 50% or 100%. This change itself doesn't affect balance, but you suddenly have more wiggle room to make changes where desired.
     
  8. Chekko

    Chekko Chieftain

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    Would be better for a Civ 7 thing but production should be categorized and not this one thing, with how we have districts and everything now. For every 5 citizens you gain a new category to use production for until you have enough to cover all categories, or each district gain its own production queue. With this people would use projects more and build buildings more. Also more buildings should be available for each district. And please make tall empires a thing again.
     
  9. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon King

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    It is a single type of production of each district that makes you play wide.:) The number of buildings in the district is not a problem. Their focused yield (campus - science, commercial hub gold etc.) is. We should either make buildings more diverse (similar way to Guilded Vault in a SS Game mode), or add more Civics that could provide more diversity, or perhaps adding a new mechanic to the game that will address this problem.
     
  10. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Of course. California supplies more food than any state. Though the central valley isn't what you'd consider desert, more like plains. Arizona has a surprising amount of agriculture as well. Generally any place you can get river water can have agriculture. This is represented in game by desert flood plains though, so I'm not sure any more is needed.
     
  11. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Am keeping an eye on the system in Humankind as an 'alternative take' on the Districts/Yields. So far, they appear to have fewer types of Districts but a bunch of 'buildings' that are not district-specific and improve yields and results from the city.

    One thing that has always annoyed me (mildly: I think overall the District System is a major improvement over previous Civ games) about the Civ VI District system is the artificial singularity of it: Neighborhoods are all residence, Holy Sites are all religious structures, etc. IRL (and here quoting my sister the PhD in Population Geography) people preferred and still prefer to live where they can get access to 'structural amenities' , so as far back as Rome we know that shops, taverns, markets were integrated with the insulae apartment buildings and in Medieval Europe people lived above or behind their craft workshops, retail shops, stands, and markets. The center of the city was, generally, where the Cathedral or main religious structure was, and around it were residences as well as shops, taverns, etc.

    A possible way to include some of this - and incidentally make Districts that are considered a waste more lucrative - might be to increase the number of Buildings per District from the current 3 to 5 and have the type of District dependent on the types of buildings in it. In other words, all Districts would be generic when built, perhaps only representing 'residence' or population. The original 'city center' would have automatically some kind of administrative Building - Palace, Rathaus (a UB?), City Hall, Chief's Hall, etc. But the various Buildings: the Library, Market, Shrine/Temple/Chapel, etc could be built in any district. Bonuses would apply to combinations or concentrations of Buildings, not Districts. Thus, a Market in a District or adjacent to a District with a Harbor or Caravanseri would get a Bonus from being able to sell foreign goods 'fresh off the boat' - or camel. A residence (insulae, apartments, etc) next to the Palace, a Cathedral/Temple or Zoo might be considered an 'elite' Neighborhood and generate more Gold (rich residents spending more) while a Residence next to the Harbor would not.
    But as the game progresses, you would always invest in 'urban renewal' (or have Catastrophies like Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Volcanic eruptions, floods, etc do it for you) tear down Buildings and replace them with others. Thus, 'Industrial' areas like parts of New York and London IRL become upscale 'loft' residences and old Renaissance Fortifications get torn down to produce Ring Roads and linear greenbelts for added Amenities.

    Just thoughts so far, and probably far more liely in a future Civ than in a DLC for Civ VI.

    Deserts have been extensively farmed since Ancient Era, but it takes major effort on infrastructure: Irrigation isn't just a 'Tech' that allows you to build Plantations, it is an investment that materially changes the terrain, and can include long range covered irrigation channels (qanats), water-raising machinery from sweeps to noria, dams to store water, and requires the mobilization of the state's resources to build in the first place, and maintain constantly after it is built.
    Nor is the exploitation of the desert limited to the nearby Floodplains. In eastern Washington State there are no floodplains, but the ex-volcanic lava flow desert and near-desert terrain is heavily irrigated from the Columbia River and its tributaries using systems of piping and pumps and a series of massive dams from Grand Coulee down built in the twentieth century - Irrigation still takes a lot of work, but it is hugely productive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2020 at 9:08 AM
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  12. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I do think it would be nicer if there were rules to encourage neighbourhoods to squeeze in between other districts. While I like playing with appeal for the housing bonus, I feel too often it encourages you to throw the neighbourhood in the middle of nowhere, just to get the appeal, whereas I think it would be much nicer if neighbourhoods all acted as sort of like a government plaza (or even potentially to have them act like the Nubian Pyramid, where they gain yields based on adjacent districts), so that it would encourage you to use them to "fill in the gaps".

    Although there are potentially unique things you could do too. For example, if you set a unique neighbourhood building for each district that can only be built if the neighbourhood is next to it, maybe that takes the gap. So if you have a public school, you can build one per city in a neighbourhood, but only if it's next to a campus.

    Yeah, this would be a nice extra bonus, and would also add some extra flair. This would also solve some of the issues where you have a spot that would both be a nice campus and a nice industrial zone, you could build the district there and it may have both a water mill and an observatory. You could add certain rules - maybe if you have a library and a university in the same district they each get a +1 bonus to encourage them together, but you don't have to space them that way.

    It would also more easily extend, if you had a system where each district had 2 spots early, but then grew up to allow up to 4 or 5 spots by the modern era.
     
  13. Time Tested

    Time Tested Chieftain

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    I like the district system. I'm mostly a casual player and I like playing more RP style games. I can explain the above away for myself by saying that cities do generate science, culture, commerce on their own in the general population, but not enough to "move the needle" for your civilization as a whole. A city center probably does have religious structures in it, and people do follow religions without there being a holy site near by. However, building a remote and dedicated holy site attracts enough religious proponents and dedication to motivate people to do things like spread religion (missionaries, apostles), train an army (faith buying units), or attract great people.

    I really like this idea! It gives a lot more flavour to neighbourhoods, and also adds a benefit to growing your population / going tall. I often only build neighbourhoods just because I like to see bigger cities, or if my cities are so overcrowded that I just feel bad for my citizens. Unrelated, but I feel that overcrowding should lead to unhappiness and not just reduced growth.
     
  14. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    I like the current District mechanism in general. Still, we have several problems with Neighborhoods as well as this system at large:

    1. Neighborhood is a District for more Housing and Population. But currently Population basically does nothing once it reaches 10-15.
    2. IRL besides a handful of metropolitans most of the cities are specialized. The Districts system does honor specialization, but the yield of Districts does not tie to People-Specialists working in it, so eventually one can still have every single district in every city.

    I think the current problem with the Neighborhood is a reflection of this population-specialists problem in general.
     
  15. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

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    Perhaps they could represent this by making it so that dams add a point of food to all snow/tundra/desert tiles either within the city, or within a number of tiles of the dam? It'd also serve to make that district more valuable.
     
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  16. Abaxial

    Abaxial Prince

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    Does population above 10 really do nothing? What about loyalty pressure, for instance?
     
  17. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    Yes and some more things (unlocking more district slots, inspiration/era score when hitting certain treshold,s pops to use a specialists, allowing concentration of production in a few cities for wonders/space race) - the question is just if it is really worth, if you try to min-max. I personally don't care if it is the best approach - having at least some big cities is just part of the way I play civ, since I play it.
     
  18. Cpt Chaos

    Cpt Chaos Chieftain

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    Cities with higher population certainly are more powerful, but the thing is I basically never need a neighbourhood to get up to 18 - 20 pop even for a landlocked city. Beyond that there really is no point (gone are the days of Civ V 50+ pop cities).
     

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