#of cities corruption limit???

[RocknOats]

I was just reading one of the tutorials and the above was mentioned. What is the number of cities corruption limit and what does it entail? Does the number change for various reasons or is it fixed? I have used the ICS method a couple times and I think I should be aware of this to maximize my pitiful GOTM games. Can anyone help?

 

[Matt_G]

Once you go over the ONC (optimal number of cities), any cities added will add to the corruption level of your Civ. The ONC changes with map size.
These numbers are:

Tiny=12
Small=14
Standard=16
Large=24
Huge=32

 

[RocknOats]

Hey, thanks a lot for the speedy reply! That's not a lot of cities. . . No wonder my civ's more corrupt than sodom and gamorrah! duh-dunt-dunt!

 

[Matt_G]

One more thing to be aware of. Going over the OCN by 1 or 2 cities, or even a few more usually doesn't hurt to bad. It's when you get significantly over, like 25 cities on a standard map that you really start to get by corruption

 

[mrlight]

Does anything affect this corruption limit? such as democracy, police station?

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

I believe that if you are a commercial civilization (eg French, English, Greeks, Indians, Romans) the optimal number of cities is larger by one or two. I recall seeing that elsewhere here on CivFanatics.

As always, place your Forbidden Palace judiciously, and you can help things out a lot.

 

[anarres]

IIRC, (at least witht he latest patches) a commercial civ gets 25% added to the OCN.

Each city calculates it's own corruption and uses the OCN number in that. Adding a courthouse also increases the OCN by 25% for that city (again, IIRC). I believe a police station also has this effect.

Corruption 'level' is another factor in the corruption equations and that is affected by the government type, so although in a democracy the OCN isn't affected the corruption is still less.

 

[mrlight]

those numbers seem awfully small. when you guys are playing, do you usually go over the OCN limit? Because I always do. also do you guys think it's worth it to go over the OCN limit (not only one or two more, but many more than that)?

 

[anarres]

I always go waay over the OCN.

Remeber that a Forbidden palace acts as a second empire, so if it is far enough away you get another set of cities and effectively 2xOCN uncorrupt ones.

Despite this I still go way over 2xOCN, since for each Palace / FP you get not only OCN uncorrupt cities (ignoring distance corruption), but each gets another OCN number of cities with sliding corruption, up to 95% when each has 2xOCN cities, giving 4xOCN cities with workable production.

After this, you can still have cities that are 95% corrupt, and these serve several purposes. They can bring gold or science in by irrigating the land and setting taxmen/scientists, or they can provide land for domination, or they can provide strategic positioning value, or they can simply be to deny the land to your opponents, or to get resources and luxuries.

 

[Sirp]

Originally posted by Matt_G
One more thing to be aware of. Going over the OCN by 1 or 2 cities, or even a few more usually doesn't hurt to bad. It's when you get significantly over, like 25 cities on a standard map that you really start to get by corruption

Note though that building or capturing a city X will never affect the corruption levels of city Y that is nearer to your capital (or forbidden palace), than city X. It will only affect the corruption levels of city Z that is further away from your capital.

So, while you might not want to put some spammy little city in your core so that it can redeem a couple of otherwise wasted tiles, because that'll increase corruption, acquiring new cities that are distant from your core is always something you want to do, since it never increases your core's corruption.

This is substantially different from Civ1 and Civ2.

-Sirp.

 

[anarres]

Sirp raises a very valid point, but in communism the number of cities *does* affect corruption in all your cities.

I guess we play under communsim so little (=never) that it's easy to forget these things.

 

[Sirp]

Indeed anarres, that is only relevant if you want to analyze how much corruption is affecting a giant AI civ

Or if you were playing some perverted variant...

-Sirp.

 

[alain1999]

Hi guys. I read your posts with very close attention because I was wondering why I had so many problems with corruption. I actually play a game on Huge Map and I control over 145 cities, sized from 1 to 36. Even if I have Courthouses and Police Stations in every city, some of them (and not the farest from capital and/or Forbidden palace) are experiencing corruption BIG TIME. I understand that I should have less cities? Or shouls rebuild my palace/forbidden palace to cover the whole territory?

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

alain

Don't move your Palace unless it's in a really *obscenity deleted* location. Place your Forbidden Palace so that its really far away from the Palace. Think of them as the two foci of an ellipse.

I don't really waste much time with my really corrupt cities. I just make sure that they have a temple/library for culture, and then I use them to deny space/resources to the AI and (if I'm really on the ball) to produce workers like crazy.

 

[nalves]

You must find two imaginary rings with the most important cities, and in the middle of them build the palace and the FP.

hope it helps

 

[DaviddesJ]

In addition to the benefits that anarres mentioned in Post #9, totally corrupt cities can still churn out workers. With a single grassland, it can produce a worker every 10 turns. Or, with rushing, a size-3 totally corrupt city with three irrigated grasslands can produce a worker every 4 turns, at the cost of 28 gold each (minus 4 that it generates in those 4 turns).

 

[alain1999]

I understand what you guys say, but my corruption problem is awful. As I said, I control about 145-150 cities (huge map) and my revenues are approx. 7500 g. per turn. On that amount, I loose abour 2600-2700 in corruption, almost as much as my science allocation!

My Palace is about in the center of my map, and my Forbidden Palace on the east edge of the map. All the north and specially the west cities are almost totally corrupted. Would it be a good thing to move?

 

[DaviddesJ]

Alain: I thought the previous messages were pretty clear. Don't expect more than a few dozen productive cities (the ones close to your palace and forbidden palace). All the rest are only good for strategic purposes (land and resource control), increasing your score, and maybe producing workers or settlers.

 

[alain1999]

OK, I didn't get it that way, David. But its really a plague! I thought there was something I was doing wrong..! I'll keep spilling my money argh!