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Of Things Not Yet Clarified

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by PACrivellaro, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    Let me first say: I love absolutely everything I’ve seen so far about Civ V. The game looks bloody brilliant. I’ve watched every video, read every article, I think I’ve seen the two hours of live gameplay four times now.

    The new .pdf guide? It’s pretty spectacular, I don’t care what anyone has to say about it. The icon art work is nothing short of gorgeous and it really did fill in a lot of the gaps on information about Civ V.

    But there are 17 things I’m still unsure about. 17 things that the amount of information on anywhere just doesn’t seem to add up. The game comes out in only two days, maybe 2kGreg could fill us in on some of these little misunderstandings sometime between now and release? It’s not like spoilers – it’s just looking for clarification on some things that are difficult to be certain about with the amount of information we’ve got so far.




    1: SOLVED.

    2: SOLVED.

    3: SOLVED.

    4: +25% bonus on mountains, what does that apply to? They’re impassible.

    5: SOLVED.

    6: SOLVED.

    7: SOLVED.

    8: SOLVED.

    9: You can raze a city as soon as you occupy it? Doesn’t this affect the ability to recapture a lost city significantly?

    10: SOLVED.

    11: SOLVED.

    12: One review said that there is no convenient way in the game to see every resource you have, are trading, etc. all at once without manually counting them. Clarification?

    13: Farms can be constructed, generally, on any tile without a resource? Even on tundra or ice? Those say no benefit to food. So I assume it's just poor wording in the guide?

    14: SOLVED.

    15: SOLVED.

    16: ‘Evasion’ is for ranged and land units, but ‘interception’ (which is avoided by evasion) seems like something only done to air units. Very confusing.

    17: Bonus resources are horribly described. They seem basically useless in a lot of situations. See: whole thread on this problem.




    If anyone has any answers for these, it’d be hugely appreciated. If not, I suppose we’ll find out through trial-and-error when the game comes ‘round.

    Until then, I’ll continue to sit in the corner and rock back and forth as I try to recover from Civ withdraw.

    :faint:
     
  2. Valdyr

    Valdyr Warlord

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    I can try to answer some of these.

     
  3. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    It's the numbers that don't add up.

    Two excellent points, I'll scratch those ones out. As for the rest: I do basically agree with you. But I'd love some further clarification on them just to be sure.
     
  4. Armada88

    Armada88 Chieftain

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    14: “Suppose you’re in a five-player game and you capture three of your opponents’
    original capitals, but the fifth player sneaks in and captures your capital while you’re not
    paying attention – then he would win immediately. In other words, it doesn’t matter who
    captures what: it’s the last player holding onto his original capital who gets the victory.
    If you’ve lost your original capital, but still possess other cities, you can still win another type of victory: culture, scientific, or diplomatic.”

    “he would win immediately” and “you can still win another type of victory” directly contradict each other.


    I took these to be two separate statements. In that situation the fifth player would win the game, however in another situation where you had lost your capital but two or more other civs still held theirs you are still able to win through the science/culture/diplomatic routes without having to recapture your capital.
     
  5. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    Hmmm, good point. You may well be right to do so. That would add things up.
     
  6. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    In the manual it looks that way, but some people suggest region-specific possibilities.

    Nope, What you see if what you get.

    You if you run out of moves... you're unit is done for the turn... just like all previous civ games. Attacking ends the units turn too, regardless of movement, as in previous games as well... this is confirmed and implied but some units have the exemption from this rule, such as most cavalry and the blitz promotion.

    Probably just thoroughness or left over code. If they're impassable then there's no reason to worry about them I'd say.

    It's rife with typos. The explaination is thus; Archer has a combat str of 4 and a ranged str of 6, with a range of 2. It can attack 1 or 2 hexes away for 6, but if a another unit attacks the archer, it's strength is 4.

    That appears correct. The only way to win a diplo-victory is via city-state influence.. Unless, as mentioned, you liberate an opponent civ. Which sorta makes sense, since such a case require the civ in question to already be losing the game... so it won't mind ceding the win to you, I suppose.

    Civs are our competition, a vote for us in the U.N. is voluntarily choosing to lose the game and not many opponents would ever do that.

    Dmg is determined Via Str V. Str. The only way a phalanx would beat a tank is if the tank had 1 health, as that's probably the max damage it could inflict to such a powerful unit... However, a tank could probably kill a spearman in one hit. As a side note It has been suggest that scenarios where both units in a combat can die do in fact exist.

    If you're referring to the heal you can consume with the use of a promotion ~ then the benefit is that your unit is healed instantly.

    I believe razing a city still takes 1 turn per pop. but I'm not entirely sure on this. If it is instant... well.. it's no different than previous civs so whatever I guess.

    Annexing is the normal part. However, this incurs an increased amount of unhappiness. You have full control over the city though. Puppeting gives you all the benefits of the city but doesn't allow you to influence it's product ~ also it won't build units or wonders... but in all other aspects it's exactly like you own it yourself, even adopting the color of your nation as if you posessed it yourself.

    In earlier builds and previews it was suggested you could direct the flow of acquisition... but I don't believe that is the case anymore. Directed tile expansion is the province of gold, which makes it particularly valuable.

    Reviewers often miss things. Earlier reviews clamed we couldn't rename cities, empires, or leaders... Either those aspects weren't in the game yet, or... imo... judging on where those options located and the time constraints... reviewers probably missed them altogether.

    It is assumed that if a tile has a resource on it, you must construct the appropriate improvement.

    I believe your quoting a reader who's interpreting the manual. I wouldn't give it too much stock until tuesday and we get a better grasp since wording is an issue in the manual in regards to certain topics.

    I don't believe we know, but I'd wager that interceptions likely thwart the intended mission.

    Hmmm, possible typo.

    Ha. Yea I wish.
     
  7. Druin

    Druin Warlord

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    yes

    those resources are not in Civ V

    No, a unit without any MP left (as in previous versions) has completed its actions for the turn

    Agreed with above ... possibly helicopters?

    100% guaranteed to be a typo. I can't definitively tell you what the actual Combat strength of an archer is. But I am willing to bet it is 4 and the 7 is a typo.

    Unlike Civ IV, each voter in the UN will get 1 vote independent of civ population. The exeption being the builder of the UN, who gets 2. No opposing civ will vote for anyone but themselves outside of being liberated back into the game. HOWEVER, city states will vote for whichever civ has the highest IP with them. This means a diplo victory is one based on city-states now, not sharing a religion with Isabella :)

    To be honest, I do not understand how this problem is avoided completely. However, it is mostly avoided in the following manner:

    In Civ IV, a unit attacked with str = to unitSTR * (HP/totalHP) which meant if the unit was at 1/100 hp it attacked at 1% of it's str. In this situation, a str 40 modern armor with 1hp left, attacked at .4 str which is MUCH lower than a spearman's full HP str of 4.

    In Civ V, a unit attacks with str = to unitSTR * (1-(MaxHP-CurrentHP)/20) with HP ranging from 1-10 (0 being dead). This means that a unit at 10/10 hp will attack at unitSTR * 1 = unitSTR but a unit at 1/10 hp will attack at unitSTR * 1-(10-1)/20 = unitSTR * .55 = 55% base strength.

    With 1hp being the lowest possible str a unit can get, a tank (str 50) at 1hp attacking a spearman (str 7) at 10hp will be 50 * .55 = 27.5 vs. 7 * 1 = 7

    27.5 v 7 will lose approximately ... never ... :p

    I also believe that there has been a mechanics change to damage dealing as well, allowing for possible damage / combat round to actually drop to 0 if the strengths are far enough apart. If this is true, I would guess the massive difference between 27.5 str and 7 str is enough to not allow spearmen to damage even 1hp tanks.

    This of course does not account for situations where the spearmen has MASSIVE combat promotions and the tank has none while crossing a river ... so I assume there will still be situations, however unlikely, where our faithful anti-tank spearmen do their job. :)

    I have acquired all of this combat math from other, unconfirmed threads so my apologies if it turns out to be false.

    Yes, alert and fortify both give the fortify bonus. I do not see a "heal" button .. only "fortify until healed" ?

    Agree with previous poster.

    ^^^^

    n/a

    This example poses two different situations. One: You capture 3 other capitals then lose your own, this losing the game. Two: you lose your capital without conquering 3 others first and thus need to find a non-domination win scenario.

    n/a

    16. That COULD be a typo, or it could mean that if your land unit intercepts a fighter, and the mechanics have changed such that your land unit can now take damage during this event, it will take 50% less damage (e.g. mobile SAM intercepts a fighter)

    Probably a typo though :)

    n/a

    [Edited for clarity]
     
  8. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    Good work, lovely people of the civ community! Nine of the seventeen pretty much confirmed.

    Thanks :]
     
  9. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    In Greg's video the 2K producer, Garrett, said the AI picks for you. It prioritizes resources or otherwise picks the most useful tiles based on what your city needs most. It is said to do a good job of it. Grabbing specific tiles can always be done with gold.

    I've seen some people compain about this but none of them have played the game. I've yet to see it even mentioned in any preview/review so I'm guessing it's a nonissue.
     
  10. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    Yeah, he says it does, but he doesn't say if manual is an option. I suppose we should just assume it's not.

    EDIT: Just went back to listen to his wording. He makes it pretty clear that you can't do it manually.
     
  11. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    Well, alert means your unit wakes up and awaits orders if an enemy comes in range - ie, it would no longer be fortified - you might want units to remain fortified for defense purposes rather than to leave the fortified state. So I think there's a strategic difference.

    Not sure on the heal thing unless it's like Civ IV where putting a unit into "heal to full mode" causes it to wake up and accept orders once healed. "Heal" might just be another way of explicitly saying do nothing this turn, just sit still and heal. Usually units only heal if they don't move, moreso in friendly territory.
     
  12. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    The manual specifies that in waking up they -don't- lose their fortification. Hence my confusion.

    Exactly. So if you can heal to full, or heal to full AND fortify... why would you not choose the latter, y'know?
     
  13. Lancor

    Lancor Prince

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    I don't think they would get such flaws into the release version. You can be sure that, if you got an injured unit it heals everytime it does not do anything else this round. So if it's capable fortifying there has to be a button "fortify until healed" and if it's just capable of sleeping then there is a button "sleep until healed" or similiar. Exception would be the promotion where you can heal on the move.

    And "sleeping" or "waked up" will just be like a "state" of the unit for players notice, like in civ4, perhaps now even with a reminder "unit needs orders". If you don't give it any new orders fortification would not be touched, even if you wake it up/make it active by selecting it. Anything else would be weird and soon patched out.
     
  14. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    I suspected the same. It's uncharacteristic of the Civ V mindset to add unnecessary clutter.
     
  15. gunburned

    gunburned Warlord

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    4: +25% bonus on mountains, what does that apply to? They’re impassible.

    I Believe this applies to Helicopter Units, which states
    "Gunships can move over all terrain types including mountains and ice, at a cost of 1 MP each. They can also move over coastal waters at the same price. They cannot enter deep water unless they embark."
    PG 119 Manuel.


    8: Does ‘alert’ have the exact same fortification bonus as ‘fortify’ -- if so, why bother with 'fortify'? Similarly, does ‘heal’ have any benefits over ‘fortify until healed’?

    To give you a warning tab starting your turn, so you don't forget to move the unit. Also applies to Ranged attacks and more.


    16: ‘Evasion’ is for ranged and land units, but ‘interception’ seems like something only done to air units. Very confusing.


    It is confusing. I assume ‘Evasion’ is for ranged land units', interception for air units.
     
  16. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    That's our best bet -- but frankly, it doesn't make much sense.

    Precisely. So why bother with something that does the same thing -without- the alert?

    And yet the stealth bomber has a + to evasion! Bah. :crazyeye:
     
  17. wingsoverithaca

    wingsoverithaca Chieftain

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    It doesn't, there may be cases depending on the player and preferences that you would like to be notified there's danger around so you can move/attack. Notified directly in that it will cycle over to that unit. I don't see myself using this that much though, because I could just look in that direction to check.
     
  18. Jonkenden

    Jonkenden Chieftain

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    Alert is basically the unit being fortified and when an opponent comes near he warns you and you will most likely be focused on the unit to give it further orders. A regular fortified unit will not react to a opponent except from defending itself. In short if you have a fortified unit that you want to act as a speed bump or general defence then fortify them.

    If you want a unit to be a lookout then alert is probably better.
     
  19. PACrivellaro

    PACrivellaro Chieftain

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    That's the way I see it. I suppose the only reason -not- to use alert is if you don't want to be bother being told that units are near in the middle of a big war.
     
  20. bernlin2000

    bernlin2000 Prince

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    4. Could be possibly helicopters, although I wouldn't normally expect them to get defensive bonuses (they don't in CivIV). Otherwise, it must be an error, since no other unit can occupy those squares.

    9. Seems like it's the same as CivIV: if you've failed to defend your city properly then you've already lost the opportunity to decide its fate. Nobody can raze any civ's original capitals, so as long as that isn't your last city, you can always rebuild :)

    12, You can still use the pop-up circles on the map that will show each individual resource, and strategic resource numbers show up on the top of the screen, and mousing over them breaks down how many are being traded/used (I believe). I think for luxury resources you can see from the diplomatic trade, and you can check your deals in the that set of screens to see which ones you're trading. Also similar to CivIV

    13. Everything but ice, the manual says. I believe tundra is still 1 food though, so a far would made it a tile with 2 food, and nothing else.

    16. Not familiar with this one, hopefully it'll be explained more in the manual at some point in the future, but I don't see much. It is confusing :sad:

    17. Yep, I'm hoping it's just bad information from an outdated manual.

    Keep the questions coming, I can't do anything at this point but just sit around and wait for the game :lol:
     

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