Official City Placement Poll

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Okay...
Since I am the one who is being blamed for the stoppage of tonights TC, here is the poll everyone wanted. It is open for 48 hours, and it is on the following:
Do you support the following image as the sites of the two new Fanatikan cities?
A is Octavianum.
B is Penguin.
Please vote.

 

[Plexus]

yes! let's get this done!

 

[donsig]

I vote no. We should be building a city two tiles NW of A - on the other side of the cow.

 

[Chieftess]

"Don't have a cow!" (hehe.. I just wanted to say that)

This "Let's vote on everything" is starting to get rediculous... We'd have to vote on spot A, which makes this poll invalid. Then, we'd probably have a vote on spot B. Then, the order of the two "Build which site first? A or B?"... That's going to take the entire week!!!

spot A vote - 2 days
discussion on A or B first, 2 more days (remember, some are busy in school, like Stuck).
spot A or B vote - 2 days

6 days...

 

[donsig]

No, CT, what is ridiculous is our leaders disregarding the people and making decisions on their own. Decisions that conflict with what the people want. It started in the FNSD with the push to the great library despite the calls for monarchy. It filtered over to the military department and caused our soldiers to camp in the woods despite an overwhelming call for war against the Aztecs. It has now reached the domestic department where our current leader (who BTW was not even elected as deputy!) has chosen to stifle citizen input on where to place our next city!

I find it highly ironic that those who want to dispense with polling the citizens because we should have faith in our leaders are the ones who cry the loudest when it is suggested that we do away with the chat. They then shout that we cannot trust our leaders - we must keep an eye on them!

 

[Chieftess]

Well, the discussions were up, and anyone is free to post in them. I put up a suggested city placement, and I saw atleast one other one. Stuck had to choose out of the availible choices. 2 days of discussion, and 1 day or so of polling. We can't sit and wait until every singe citizen gives us an opinion. That's why we have the polls. If more citizens didn't like it, they'd select 'no', or 'abstain'.

 

[Cyc]

Quoting Donsig:
I find it highly ironic that those who want to dispense with polling the citizens because we should have faith in our leaders are the ones who cry the loudest when it is suggested that we do away with the chat. They then shout that we cannot trust our leaders - we must keep an eye on them!
___________________________________________

no, no, no, Donsig.
I beg to differ. I'm the one who cries the loudest....

 

[disorganizer]

CT: i depends on whether city placement is a quick-poll isue. You can do 3 quick polls between 2 chats.

 

[disorganizer]

btw: i voted abstain cause i like spot A and would like to have spot B 2 tiles nw.
in fact i think multiple choices for those city placements would have been better here. Like list all positions and use a multiple choice quick poll to get 2-3 sorted out and then a quick poll to decide between them.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

are all of you trying to kill me!!!
seriously
first- donsig: I was indeed elecred Deputy. Search for the poll. it's there.
Second: Arggggg! This is getting to be annoying. First you yell at me for not having the poll, then i have the poll and you yell at me for it. I didnt quick-poll this because I believed that it did not fall under the need for one, unlike our borders.
Third: just vote on the poll.... i understand you may not like it, but where were your opinions in the varity of threads?
And Cyc- thanks for handling him while I was sleeping.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

So, Donsig. I was never elected deputy, eh?

 

[donsig]

SAaM: You were not ELECTED into the domestic department. You were APPOINTED. The poll you linked to above is a CONFIRMATION poll and not and ELECTION poll. Perhaps I should explain the difference because you seem to be .

Here is an example of an election thread.

Compare that poll to the one you claim as proof of your election as domestic deputy. One fundamental difference is in the number of choices. The confirmation poll you linked to is strictly a yes or no proposition. It does not give the voters other choices. The confirmation poll is structured to give an all or nothing answer - either the candidate is confrimed or he is rejected. In the latter case the process must start again with a new appontment.

I'm not explaining this to insult you or to merely prove my point that you were not elected to the domestic department. This difference between an election and confirmation poll applies directly to this poll you wrote concerning the placement of our next city. Rather than give us an election poll where we can choose the option we like best, you gave us a confirmation poll asking if we approve of the option you like best. Confirmation type polls do have their place in our game even in the realm of city placement. They are appropriately used when discussion results in a concensus and we want confirmation of the concensus. When discussion yields more than one viable option (as in this case) then an election type poll that lists all suggested options should be made.

It is really unfair to put up the poll that you did. Many citizens will now vote for your proposal just to get a choice made so the game will move on.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Donsig- Point taken. Just asking, though, how is it unfair that I put up the poll? There was a discussion. Out of the discussion came this proposal. There was a three hour timegap between the creation of this map and the creation of this poll. If someone wished to voice an opinioin, then would have been the time. But, no one did, so I polled what I assumed the public was happy with. Also- If you wish to place a city somewhere else, there is a thread headded by Fionn in which you can make suggestions for future cities.

 

[Cyc]

Now that was right on, Donsig.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Donsig- Point taken. Just asking, though, how is it unfair that I put up the poll? There was a discussion. Out of the discussion came this proposal. There was a three hour timegap between the creation of this map and the creation of this poll. If someone wished to voice an opinioin, then would have been the time. But, no one did, so I polled what I assumed the public was happy with. Also- If you wish to place a city somewhere else, there is a thread headded by Fionn in which you can make suggestions for future cities.

It is unfair because you did not include options that have been suggested by citizens. It is not fair to post a map and the wait three hours to see if any one objects! Especially if the other suggestions were already posted in the forums. Here are some links to posts suggesting othersites:

A post by Cyc in Zarn's Where is the next city? thread.

A post by Plexus in the same thread.

A post by donsig in the same thread.

A post by FortyJ in the same thread.

A post by donsig in Chieftess's Future City Placement thread.

A post by Plexus in the same thread.

A post by Cyc in the same thread.

A post by Cyc in the domestic department thread.

There may be more posts out there but I think I've made my point...

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

First, thank you SaaM for posting a poll.

Three suggestions:

1) Leave the poll open for 48 hours, or until a quorum is reached. You do that by leaving the default selection of 0 hours in the poll setup. This will ensure that you can reach quorum at somepoint, and you can always have the poll closed as soon as that occurs.

2) Always reference the relative discussion thread. Just cut and paste the web address in. This is a requirement so that somebody doesn't come along and say "hey, you didn't discuss this..."

3) I think you would have done even better by polling for position A and then position B in a seperate poll. What option would you take if you disagreed with A or B? In my case, I will have to vote no, as I too disagree with A, though I think B is great.

Bill

 

[Eklektikos]

I voted no to this, as I dislike the site for city B. It's a bit too far away from the capital for my liking. Personally I do like site A though.

I also agree with Donsig's earlier comments regarding the manipulative nature of this poll. All the possible options should have been presented - perhaps in a multiple choice poll so that the two most popular sites could have been chosen in true democratic fashion.

 

[Shabbaman]

Site A and site b are fine, although IMHO they should be build in the reverse order. That way we've got a city closer to aztek territory.

 

[disorganizer]

as we see, its easy to go over the quorum

 

[donsig]

Yes, we've reached quorum here but the issue is not settled. More votes may alter the outcome. The chat is still 2 days away and this poll should be left open till then.