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OFFICIAL DISCUSSION: Citizen's Rights

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Chieftess, Jan 26, 2005.

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  1. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I'd like the Mod's right to delete all this bickering crap. Provo, just quit talking to Blackheart. Blackheart, just quit talking to Provo. Problem solved...
     
  2. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    That's just avoidance, creates more problems :sad:
     
  3. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    I second that. There's no need to fill up a thread with bickering when someone has already presented a perfectly acceptable proposal.
     
  4. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Yeah delete the bickering crap, both mine and Blackhearts .In fact, I hardly see anything he writes of significance anyways, in terms of constructively commenting a proposal.
    Notice none of the rights were addressed except for the purpose of labeling me for a vendetta. What about constructively referring each right on their own merits ?
     
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    So , please consider the following :

    ban of political parties

    "calling for bloc votes in elections and other polls based on organizational allegiance is banned and could lead to legal prosecution"

    right to named military unit.

    "all registered citizens are entitled to a named military unit following the citizen registry list, where each citizen can nominate up to three names. This right cannot be violated by human error, polls or player intervention, and any wrongdoings should be corrected regardless of the time passed following the naming."
     
  6. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    For those who still haven't learned how commentary should be done... :rolleyes:

    Naming military units: I think having citizen names for units would cause too much confusion. A specified name overrides the unit type, so the type would have to be concatenated with the citizen's name. Then when the unit gets upgraded if it doesn't get renamed then chaos can result -- why is there a warrior fortified there when we're in the industrial? Oh yeah, that's really a guerilla. :crazyeye:

    A right to protest was already present in the old rules, it's called freedom of speech. Restricting the right to post in government threads does not make any sense. The government thread should be the place where citizens can post a petition to the official to change a policy.

    I agree that the right to a speedy trial needs to be added, and a statute of limitations. I would also argue though that just having the term end should not be grounds for dismissing a case or having a guilty verdict with no punishment.

    Defending against undue criticism is everyone's right, this is also covered under freedom of speech. If you get flamed, it's better to use the report post button than flame back. It also works better to brush off flames and respond to substance with substance. People will have a higher opinion of your work, and if a flame war is one sided then it's easy for the mods to rectify the situation.

    I know what the right to participate in elections point is about. If someone wants to be in an election, don't choose that time period to break forum rules. :mischief:

    Anyone can put up a poll. Anyone can post commentary on a poll. If you are not the leader of an area and want the poll to be binding on that area, you need to show good faith effort in requesting the poll of the responsible official, having a reasonable time period to respond, and then a respectful approach to the poll itself. Then the general public will buy into your poll's legitimacy and you will get a valid poll result.
     
  7. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Perhaps you're too full of
    Spoiler :
    feces
    to notice it. DS has just said what I said about limiting government threads.

    Now about military units. That's why I propose naming it like Zojoji 5th Garrison, 1st Northern Army/Division, etc. A general name so we can quickly identify the unit's purpose.
     
  8. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Well, it is still a problem that some government threads are clogged with junk, we need to find a way to regulate the type of posts there.
    I think Daveshack meant something different from you though, I cannot believe he is for situations where government threads loses their integrity.
     
  9. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    I am all for situations where government threads lose their integrity! :rolleyes:

    Let's stop with the phobic concern with people "bashing", disagreeing with, and opposing other people. All of this comes with politics, and by this time and age should it really hurt someone's feelings or self-esteem?

    One man's trash is another man's treasure. You can take a "flame" or a criticizing thread and turn it into something positive.
     
  10. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    DS,

    The speedy trial bit is there basically to make sure that complaints are made in a timely manner, and that the court makes all effort to process the accusation in a timely manner. If we hit a term boundary, then yeah, it's going to cause a slight delay.

    No more of this 2 months after the act garbage. Of all the CC's I've seen, that was easily one of the worst, most mean-spirited attacks.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  11. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I agree with Ravensfire, a one month limit following the act of the crime dating from the last documented instance would probably be a good rule, since some crimes require investigations and analysis to find out. Some tracks may be well covered and so on.
     
  12. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I think you may have misinterpreted what I wanted to say. I'm not worried about the term boundry causing a delay, just that the attitude that this person is going out of office so no need to do anything does not give the victim justice.
     
  13. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    On the other side, there should be no obsoletion of a crime for repairing damages.
    Unjust actions that cannot be punished, should at least be repaired if possible.
     
  14. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    I think we should make it 2 weeks. Of all of our CCs/PIs, DG1 seemed to have one of the quickest turn-around times.

    Here's the plan:

    Someone posts in the judiciary thread.
    Phase One - 24 hours
    The judiciary (any member) has 24 hours to respond to it. "Respond to it" means that the justices acknowledge the CC/PI. BTW, I don't like the concept of "out of court settlements" now, since there's not much you can do except say "Sorry", and with personal vandettas running around, you're bound to get biased arguments and fighting. All the judiciary has to do is write, "CC/PI acknowledged. PM's will be sent).

    Phase Two - 48 hours
    The Public Defender defaults to being the defense of the accused. The Judge Advocate defaults to being the prosecuter of the person bringing the CC/PI charge.

    The acuser and acusee will read and respond to their pm's. If they do so before 48 hours, then the next phase can begin.

    If the justices wish, they can discuss together and determine if the case has merit. If it does, the PM's get sent. If not, they write in the judiciary thread.

    Phase Three - 48 hours

    The Chief Justice will post a CC/PI Thread, and list the charges. One they have done that, the people representing the clients will post their argument. Then, the thread will be 'opened' to discussion by the citizentry. The 72 hour timeframe starts when the discussion is opened.

    Phase Four - 48 hours

    This phase is the Guily/Innocent poll. The Chief Justice will post a poll with these options, and abstain.

    Phase Five - 48 hours

    This phase is only done if the accused is found guilty. The punishments are as follows:

    1 - 1st Warning
    2 - 2nd Warning
    3 - 3rd Warning
    4 - Resignation from office (or if they're a citizen, barred from nominations/appointments for the next term).
    5 - Impeachment.
    6 - Moderator Intervention of the accused.

    Unlike previous PIs/CCs, this one doesn't have "Banned from the forum". Rather, I've called it "Moderator Intervention of the accused.". This can range anywhere from a formal forum-warning, to a ban.
     
  15. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Good call CT, this looks like a good legal model
     
  16. YNCS

    YNCS Ex-bubblehead

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    What are the differences between the warnings? Has anyone ever been warned three times about his or her actions?
     
  17. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, no. Not in a single game. I doubt that would ever happen. Over the course of 5 DGs, CT has received 5 warnings for her PI/CC convictions, but apparently we don't carry them through game to game. ;)
     
  18. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Not like you could ban a mod :p
     
  19. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    Because the grudges and personal vandetta's should stay in those games.
     
  20. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Relax CT. There's no conspiracy here. :rolleyes: :lol:
     
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