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OFFICIAL DISCUSSION: Citizen's Rights

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Chieftess, Jan 26, 2005.

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  1. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    I second that.
     
  2. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    dont worry I wont tell your plan to get CT warned once a DG.... oh wait :blush: :D
     
  3. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Well, actually the grudges and personal vendetta's shouldn't happen at all... :rolleyes:

    There is one valid reason I can think of to keep a "record" of citizen conduct during prior games. The voters should have a right to hear each candidate's history, so that they can decide whether to continue that history or not.

    However, it cuts both ways. If a particular individual has a record of being the target of a lot of CCs, then that person might not be someone we want to hold more offices. By the same logic, if someone is consistently accusing others then that person's record is fair game too. Giving offense and taking it are both things to be avoided here as much as possible.
     
  4. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    I would be defenately be against having a record of citizen conduct during prior games. This is speeking from experiance when my reputation went from good to terrable in demogame 4 and it was not around term 3 that I started to get back on my feet. Ill quote Sarevok when he posted in my older poll entitled "Mudslinging" that was posted at the start of the Demogame.

    I beleve what happened good and bad should remain in their respected demogame. Meaning that what happened in Demogame 1,2,3,... stays in Demogame 1,2,3,... . I find that having conduct records of each citizen is much more disturbing than the Patriot Act of the United States. I am not attacking on any particular person, I am just expressing my conserns if that was implemented.
     
  5. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    :hmm: So people like me, who have never had a PI or CC filed against them for breaking any rule in 5 Demogames wouldn't be able to bring that forward as a "good conduct record" during election time? Doesn't sound right to me. Public record is public record. Good behavior is good behavior.

    And Black_Hole, :lol: I didn't even touch CT in DG4 when she pirated the save. So ya see, I let it go. BTW, I am glad you filed in DG5, tho. :goodjob: I will not file against people who don't break the rules.
     
  6. YNCS

    YNCS Ex-bubblehead

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    Okay, folks, you've had your whines. This is a new game. I don't want to hear "well, I could have CC'ed you in DG 3.1416 but I had the flu that day so I let it slide." Some of you remind me of the Wicked Witch of the West in The Wizard of Oz: "I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too."

    Supposedly, one of the purposes of criminal prosecution and punishment is rehabilitation. I'm not going to get into an argument about this topic, but I would point out that once a person has been tried and punished, supposedly their slade is wiped clean and they start anew. Let's put the vendettas, personal animosities, and feuds away. This is a new game and let's not bring old trash into it.
     
  7. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I agree YNCS, one should start anew. However, if you consistently attack past flaws to correct them in this game, some people confuse these with personal criticism or backhanded insults. I promise to keep peoples nicks away the discussions and not aggressively threadjack peoples constructive threads with agressive derogatory statements designated to undermine their present constructive arguments.
    However, you will still the see mauling and bashing of the naming conventions, anything resembling DG "traditional laws", use of old DG veteran verbage designated to shoot down rivals and not to further or enlighten the game.

    This explains my tour in the naming conventions, last game "traditional laws" that failed miserably, why I want to relearn some polling standards, having posted some flawed polls myself and especially reform the government structure, causing the very dilemmas sometimes impacting everybodys polling and so on.
    Too few turns in a term creates tension and animosity, the same applies to no challenges, and no one wants to set a minimum pace still, merely asking for "peer pressure". Well, we need written down guidelines anyway for what works with people.

    So I would say, shaping up the laws a little, enforcing agreed polling standards, omitting traditional "laws" and replacing these with hard paragraphs in the Constitution and Laws and making a strategic-tactical layer government would be key.
    YNCS, please arrest me if I attack a peer in here in person and not on the issue, but also be overbearing if I try to stomp out some obviously defunct mechanisms with brute force or logical argument.
     
  8. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I know it's hard for new citizens to understand, but the PI/CC system is designed not only to help people see their errors in playing the game (or rehab as you call it) but to help the game become more fine-tuned and run smoother. A lot of people see this investigative approach as a cynical punishment used in vendettas and feuds, and I suppose it can be used for that, but then that's not the proccess' fault, that's the maturity of the player. Now if someone hurts you personally by game actions authorized by their position, you have the right to seek justice. If someone does this to you consistantly, mentioning prior transgressions should not be outside of this action. You have to realize that what you see as a witch-hunt can actually be a defensive move for the same action by another person. I have to say, I would never file a legal action against anyone who did not break the law. And the people would not convict a person if they did not break the law. I've grown really tired of people who low-brow others who exercise their right to defend themselves.

    Hey, I'm with ya all the way on this one. In a perfect world, this is the way to be. As stated before, I would not exercise my rights to defend myself if I had not legal ground to stand on. But I'm a law abiding citizen (ok, I've been banned for forum rules) and I expect others to play by the same DG rules. If a person keeps breaking the same rules game after game, obviously rehab isn't working. Just like in real life, if you ignore the past, you're doomed to repeat it. Somethings need to be said.
     
  9. YNCS

    YNCS Ex-bubblehead

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    Cyc,

    If in DG6 someone violates the rules, then hammer them. I have no problem with that. My complaint has to do with certain people (I won't embarass you by mentioning your name) whining about something that happened in DG4.

    DG4 is over. DG5 is also over. Let's worry about DG6 and forget about how someone did something over six months and two games ago.
     
  10. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I think we can agree on this. Done! :)
     
  11. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Citizen Rights' discussion summary:

    -- Comes from DG V Article A

    Discussion points
    -- Wording changes
    -- Right to Fair and Speedy Trial (NOT the specifics, please)
    -- Banning Political Parties
    -- Naming Military Units

    -- Ravensfire
     
  12. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Each citizen having the right to name a city. For some reason this traditional rule/law is not documented. Let's bring this up to a written Law.
     
  13. thescaryworker

    thescaryworker Builder

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    I think YNCS is right. However, if anyone did something SERIOUSLY wrong, there should be some constraints to their rights.
     
  14. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Its done in the form of banning, that's about it. And in some circumstances we can't punish the wrong doer at all, only give them warnings.

    What Cyc says has a point. If a person keeps getting CCs over the course of several DGs, then you know they're bound to get one this DG.
     
  15. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    That's not possible, though. Looking at DG5, we had far more registered citizens than we had cities. It would be unfair to codify a law like this and then deny citizens that right simply because we don't have enough cities.
     
  16. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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