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Official poll: Should we end our alliances against Persia in 5 turns and make peace?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game II: Polls' started by donsig, Dec 24, 2002.

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Should we end all our alliances against Persia in 5 turns and then make peace?

Poll closed Dec 26, 2002.
  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    78.6%
  3. Abstain

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    We currently have 4 alliances against Persia. They are with England, India, the Zulus and China. The first three can be ended peacefully now. The alliance with China has 4 turns remaining before it can be ended peacefully.

    Should we end all of these alliances in 5 turns and then make peace with Persia?

    Revelvant discussion threads:
    Term 4 FA thread.
    Foreign issues for the upcoming turns.
    Lost alliances and the war with the Persians.
    FA discussion: allies against the Persians.
    Should we pay China 16gpt for an alliance against Persia? http://

    This poll will remain open for 2 days.
     
  2. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    At this time, I have no "official" opinion :) .
     
  3. Shaitan

    Shaitan der Besucher

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    No, these active alliances keep some powerful neighbors occupied and on our side. Being at war with Persia doesn't have any down side.
     
  4. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    As Shaitan said, there is no real downside to being at war with Persia, or to those alliances as they are not costing us much of anything. The Chinese alliance is a different story. I would be in favor of ending our current deal, and then possibly renegotiating. As it is, this poll needs to be split into two parts, and I ask that the judiciary declare it invalid for that reason. There was also no discussion of this particular topic, and the FA department was only notified just before this poll was opened. I ask that donsig refrain from posting polls aimed only at causing a problem with the normal functioning of the game, since to actually split this subject up, which is absolutely necessary, I have to invalidate this poll first. In fact, I may be asking for a PI in the near future. This is ridiculous, and the purpose of this poll seems to have little to do with obtaining the will of the citizens or doing what is right for the game, but rather to pursue a personal vendetta.
     
  5. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    I'm sorry to hear that you think a citizen poll is ridiculous. Grow up eyrei. I have no personal vendetta against you or anyone else. I do have a vendetta against the useless alliances though and that is why I have posted this poll. The purpose of the poll is to obtain the will of the citizens on this matter. All are free to speak their mind here and vote. As far as I can tell this poll is valid but I will leave that up to the judiciary to decide. I do not think the poll can be declared invalid because you think it should be split into two parts. As for the discussion I have posted all the relevant links to the recent discussions. Since the turn chat is two days away and polls must be open for 2 days there is not time initiate a new thread for discussion. There has been hardly any discussions on any strategic aspect of this game lately. I do not think that should invalidate our polling process.

    As for these alliances and the war with Persia. I dubbed this war the Phony Persian War a long time ago. Persia was never a threat to us. We would have been able to make peace with them long before any of their military units came into sight. The other reason given for these alliances is that they keep our powerful neighbors from attacking us. Well, there are other ways to do that. One is to keep our military on par or stronger than theirs. These alliances have served to weaken our military in two ways. First, they drained gold from our treasury that could have gone into upgrading our units or rushing new units and barracks. Second, they have caused a false sense of security among our people. Since we do not have to worry about the Chinese threat we go about building universities even when our science rate is zero percent! We're building universities instead of knights and pikemen. By leaving these alliances dangle out there we foster this poor attitude towards our military. By ending these alliances and this Phony war in 5 turns we can return our focus to building our military and begin to plan our next real war.
    We must also realize that the ability of these alliances to "protect" us diminishes as time goes on. In the 5 turns the AI will be free to make peace with Persia without taking a rep hit. What if Xerxes sues for peace and gets it? What if China then turns on us anyway? Wouldn't we be better off ending the alliance as soon as possible while continuing to build our forces?
     
  6. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    Considering your recent accusations and the fact that you posted this poll yourself rather than asking that I do it, I have every reason to believe this is based at least on political machinations if not personal vendetta. Lumping the end to the Chinese alliance with 3 others is irresponsible and manipulative, since this can easily be broken into two polls. You also left out the option of renegotiating the alliance. You also had two days to start a discussion on this if you had wished, which would have most definately prompted me to post a poll immediately following.

    I have posted the offical Foreign Affairs Department poll on this subject and an informational poll to see how many people actually favor peace with the Persians.

    Finally, do not tell me to grow up. This is not the first time you have a pulled a stunt like this when elections near, in an attempt to embarrass the person you wish to run against. If you wish to see an example of your own immaturity, please review the post you made in a certain controversial quick poll last week referring to me as "High and Mighty Moderator". I have been patient regarding your accusations and implications, but attempting to interfere with the functions of my department is another story altogether.
     
  7. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    The purpose of my poll is to seek an end to the Phony Persian War not simply an end to the Chinese alliance. Ending the war without damaging our reputation requires that we let the Chinese alliance run it's 20 turn course and then end all the alliances before making peace. Hence the lumping together of the alliances. If you'd calm down you might see this. Cyc is the only other person to comment on this poll and he clearly sees it as a comprehensive peace plan so I'm confident that my intent does come through.

    Of course I left out the option of renegotiating the allliance. Would that not lock us into another 20 turns of the Phony Persian War? :rolleyes:

    Yes, I had time to post a discussion before posting the poll but I figured you'd be doing your job as FA leader. I am sorry if real life got in the way of me doing your job for you properly. My second grand-daughter was born yesterday morning and that event did cut into my on-line time so I was unable to see how things were going in the demo game.

    I thought the *High and Mighty Moderator* line was a good one seeing as how you tried to downplay a legitimate turn chat vote by stating that different people must have voted in the turn chat and in your poll. It is not immature to try to embarrass an elected official into doing his job. If you do not want to be embarrassed then do not do embarrassing things.

    You are right, this is not the first time I've been in this situation. The parallels between Strider's drive for the great library and your desire to keep us in the Phony Persian War are remarkable. I intend to stand up for what I believe in now as I did then. What I believe right now is that the Phony Persian War is harmful to Fanatika and I am trying to end it.
     
  8. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    So you left out an option because you didn't agree with it? I would say your poll is horribly invalid and biased.
     
  9. Plexus

    Plexus Architeuthidae puericomedentis

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    There is no point to pursue peace at this point. That is all.
     
  10. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Since when are biased polls invalid? BTW, I basically said the same thing about your informational poll regarding peace with Persia. I think I said it a little nicer though.

    BTW, Merry Christmas eyrei. :)
     
  11. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    I decided to make that an informational poll because I could not possibly cover all the options available on a specific enough level for an official poll. There are just too many variables. However, the issue of the Chinese will be decided separately from the others, as it is a completely different situation. I did make it clear in the first post of the poll regarding the Chinese alliance that voting to continue this alliance in any way would make it foolish to sign a peace treaty with the Persians. I am hoping that people are smart enough that they will not vote for a continued alliance with the Chinese and then go vote to make peace with Persia.

    And Merry Christmas to you as well.:D
     
  12. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I voted abstain in this poll, but I see nothing wrong with the poll or its purpose. I believe donsig is within his rights to post this poll, and that it can not be declared invalid because of the reasons you've stated, eyrei.
     
  13. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    In a single-player game against the AI, I am with donsig 100%. Don't shell out the gold, and systematically deal with aggressive neighbors on a turn-by-turn basis.

    However, the DemoGame is a different story altogether. In the age of marathon turn chat parties, where the game can be allowed to progress far past departmental instructions(especially from the Military, where strategies can change in an instant), I believe safety is the best alternative. And that can only be attained by keeping those neighboring Civs on our side.

    As much as I would support this under my own playing style, I will have to vote NO as it pertains to the DemoGame.
     

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