Official Strategy Meeting 1

[peter grimes]

I think it's best if we try to brainstorm some discussion points for this meeting on Monday with Piffle.

1. Clearly, we want to set some benchmarks about research - what techs to have by which turn; this should just be a ballpark estimate, so that we can all be certain that our Cavalry plan can work.

2. Also, the 2 teams will be well-served to coordinate diplomatic relations with Aloha, Loco, and Innovia. Epsilon needs to determine how open we will be with Piffle here.

3. Scouting each other's territory, would do wonders to increase trust. This could be achieved quicker with an exchange of maps in-game. However, there may come a time when either team needs to trade a map to a Foreign Power. It would be prudent, therefore, to only exchange screenshots of each's territory: That way, a third party will be in the dark We just need to double check the ruleset to make certain that we won't be in violation or anything.

I'm sure there's lots more to refine on the diplomatic front, so let's have some more detailed discussion points!

Also, it might be helpful to ensure that one or two of us have the save open for reference. My computer can do both Civ and Internet no problem, so I can be one of the 'researchers'.

Anything we need other than that could be looked up by the others in the Whispers Room online. I can't think of anything that would be helpful to have printed out before-hand....

Last thing: Will the Whispers Room be hosted on MSN as well?... if not, I'll need to install whichever chat client we're going to use for that

EDIT: Tho' I've installed MSN, I still haven't been able to sign on, as they haven't sent my confirmation email to my old yahoo account. My name will be pgrimesy AT yahoo dot com. Hopefully it's just a server hiccup

 

[gbno1fan]

I think there should also be some guidelines set up about what members of our team are allowed to reveal to Piffle - we don't want to let any secret info be leaked out through this meeting.

General_W, do you have any limits to what people should say?

 

[General_W]

Thanks for starting this thread Peter!


I think we need to acknowledge what we’re doing here – we’re making the strategic decision to tie our fortunes, to a large extent, to an alliance with Piffle.

This is something I totally support – and believe is necessary for us to thrive. Especially with our vulnerable position as the score leader, having one really solid ally for the next 40-80 turns will be key, imo. A tight alliance strengthens our technology bartering position, secures one flank militarily, and expands our fall-back options if we get into an international bind of some kind.

Piffle, I believe is a great choice for a partner.
Loco is weak, playing pathetic so far, and really spotty on communication.
Innovia is deeply suspicious, a ring leader in the “Epsilon is the Enemy” camp, and already in bed with Aloha.
Aloha is now the strongest adversary we face, has an apparently strong ally in Innovia, and has shown absolutely no interest in dealing with us.

You can argue for an alliance with Piffle almost just by elimination alone.
However, I think Piffle has a few things that argue FOR them also. They’ve got a good economy, and with their financial trait, will be a good research partner for us. They’re willing to trade, have proven trustworthy and cooperative, and they’re close enough at hand to be helpful in desperate military situations, and our trade route with them allows resource trading without a need for advanced technologies.


Why the long Piffle discourse?

To make the case for why I’d be pretty open with them. For the short-to-medium term, I think we want to really make our alliance with them tight – and not worry about beating them too much till we’re down to 3 teams left.

There are only 2 things I can think of that I wouldn’t disclose to Piffle… #1 is our World Map, in game. We’ve been so good about guarding our borders so far, I’d hate to see it traded it away. I LOVE the idea of trading screenshots, and think we should certainly do that. But I’d rather hang on to our in-game map.
#2 is our Military makeup. Obviously we can speak in generalities, but I’d rather keep our actual strength more of a question mark – I think we’re stronger than Piffle, and I think we’ll do better in our Military campaign against Loco than they would do against Aloha… which I like very much – gives us an edge going forward.

Which ties into my opinion that we should push pretty hard for Piffle attacking Aloha while we attack Loco. Loco is a politically easier target (Since Aloha has a tight alliance with Innovia, Loco doesn’t have any real good alliances that we know of) and Loco also is an easier military target, due to their technological and apparent military weakness.

Otherwise, I think any other topics are fair game for a frank and honest discussion.

Obviously, as the game progresses, we’ll have other things we want to keep secret.
But for now, I’d just try to keep a lid on…

• Our world map, in game
• Our current military strength
• Our agenda of pushing Piffle to attack Aloha and leaving Loco to us for our own selfish reasons. (Obviously we’ll they’ll know this is what we want, we just need to make them think it’s for other reasons.)

What does everyone else think?

 

[DaveMcW]

I think that's a good summary of what we want. If we have to sum it up in 1 sentence, it would be "alliance until there are only 3 civs left".

Obviously we won't achieve our ideal of taking all of Loco for ourselves and letting Piffle get bogged down on Aloha. We need a road map for equal distribution of land.

 

[General_W]

I’ve very glad you’re on board Dave! I value your perspective tremendously.

Don’t write off getting Piffle at least semi-bogged down in Aloha land – I’m optimistic we may be able to spin Piffle into thinking they’re getting a pretty fair deal. After all, at last standing, Loco is actually higher than Aloha on the Power Graph (which we all know doesn’t mean too much – but it’s a good negotiating tactic)

I think we should be ready to send a small “support detachment” of Epsilon Troops to help Piffle conquer Aloha. Say, 5 or so units, preferably fast moving ones… and maybe a couple catapults. We would support them by engaging units in the open, cutting supply lines, and bombing defenses… but not taking any cities. That way we’d be helping Piffle take on Aloha, we’d be getting a good look at Aloha’s land, and we’d still only have a modest investment in that war…. Leaving us mostly free to focus our might on Loco.

I think Piffle would go for something like this.
What do you think?

Edit: it’s probably worth my repeating for those that didn’t read the full chat – but I think a joint war is a really dangerous idea. Ripe for recriminations of who is pulling their weight and who isn’t, and who is getting more of an advantage and who isn’t. Better by far to get a fair distribution of land by saying, Aloha is yours, Loco is ours.
imho.

 

[DaveMcW]

I think you'll do a good job of explaining that to Piffle. Obviously we won't give them anything unless they ask for it.

But the fact is that Loco is weaker than Aloha. There are 2 things they can demand to make it more equal:
- Some of Loco's land
- Some of our troops

We should think about which is better to give them.

Another thing to consider is Innovia
- should we let them in on our plans?
- should we give them a join-or-die letter when we declare war on Loco and Aloha?
- should we do nothing and try to steer the world into Epsilon + Piffle vs Aloha + Innovia?

 

[peter grimes]

Regarding joint tactical operations: yeah - bad idea. This game isn't structured too well for that sort of thing. Diplomacy is better for that

I don't see anything at all unfavorable about leaving Aloha for Piffle while we take Loco. That way, we each get full 'rights' to one of the other teams' starting locations, and all the resources that go along with that.

As for sending an Expeditionary Force to Aloha - will we allow Piffle to do the same in Loco land?.. And let's not forget: every unit in Aloha land represents hammers that are not directed to the war against Loco

 

[peter grimes]

Cross-post with Dave...

Abotu Innovia, I had always thought the best course was to keep them in the dark. Think about what happens from Innovia's perspective if neither Piffle nor Epsilon are talking to them:

They see Piffle's score rising in tandem with Epsilons.
They see that Loco and Epsilon are at war.
They concurrently see that Aloha and Piffle are at war.
They must decide where to direct aid: split it in two, so that it's half as effective, or send all their assistance to one team?​

They will have a really hard time making that choice, as they won't have tons of info on which to base a sound strategic decision.

So Yeah, I think we should simply give Innovia the silent treatment regarding the war.

On the other hand, that leaves open the possibility of Piffle recruiting Innovia into their camp

 

[General_W]

Good discussion going on here!

First – I agree whole-heartedly with Dave – Loco is certainly the weaker target. What’s questionable, is whether or not Piffle knows/realizes this.
If we can convince them that “Piffle takes Aloha, Epsilon takes Loco” is fair straight up… then great! We won’t offer any help. However, just from my chat with KillerCane, I suspect that Piffle DOES know Loco is the easier target, and we’re going to have to offer something to Piffle to make it fair.

We COULD offer Piffle a city of Loco’s… but I doubt they’d go for it anyway. It would just end up being easy pickings for us when it finally comes to blows between our empires at the end of the game. Hence, I think the military option is going to be more appealing.
I like the idea of getting some views of Aloha Land with our units – but we may find that the easier/more preferred course is to just send some extra units to Piffle, and transfer control. That limits our views, but cuts our support costs. Another benefit of just transferring control, is that it saves us from officially declaring war on Aloha… which could help keep Innovia in the dark on what’s going on.
Which brings me to…

Dealing with Innovia…
I agree with what Peter has outlined. Ideal scenario is that Innovia is left largely in the dark and marginalized – blunting any impact they can have till it’s too late.
I don’t think we want to see them recruited on either side… which is something we can certainly discuss with Piffle.
In my opinion, best case scenario has us rolling into Innovia land shortly after we’ve crushed Loco, consolidated our gains, and picked up the next great Military Advance… say Infantry… which we should be able to get too shortly after Loco is dead.
Since most of our military will be in Loco’s former territory, it’ll be much more logistically feasible to attack Innovia, than it would be to swing all the way back around at Piffle.

If Innovia were to join us in crushing Loco, or join Piffle in taking down Aloha (highly unlikely) – either way they are stronger and larger when judgment day comes. I don’t think we want to see them mobilizing for war and/or getting experience for their units if it can be helped at all.

At least, that’s my current take.

EDIT: if anything, I think we're likely to see Innovia try to come to Aloha's aid... which may necessitate us upping our military aid to Piffle. Not the best, but a nice way to fight a pre-war with Innovia without getting our hands dirty

 

[Memphus]

If we do decide to transfer Units to Pfiffle...then they could use them agaisn't us later .

However we could have a "Return" Clause where if the War goes well for them 40% of our units get returned.

As for maps and screenshots I don't know...Then they can be put on the table for trade. Even outdated Maps are enough to plan an attack.

I would prefer giving no maps away. (whether it be screenshots or not.)

If we do give screenshots then I say we doctor them and move our cities around a little bit and remove the names...

As for taking part in the chat can someone post directions on what to do and when!

 

[General_W]

On Maps:
I still think giving screenshot maps away is ok – but our Dear President has gone on record against it… We should probably try to settle this question before the chat.
Anyone want to speak up for one side or the other?
EDIT: since it was mentioned, I think passing out doctored maps is a very bad idea - likely to bite us in the behind later. I'd rather just NOT do maps than pass out forged ones. My 2 cents anyway.

On the Chat:
Pretty much, all you’ll need is the MSN messenger client, and to be online at the right time (7pm PST, 10pm EST) tomorrow night.
As long as you have my MSN handle (usaman77 AT hotmail DOT com) – then I can either invite you to the chat, or else give you the info you need to get to the chat.

I’ll for-sure be hosting a whisper room, for any comments and discussion that we don’t want out in front of Piffle.

Does that make sense?
Please post here with any questions.

I’ll be around on MSN a lot tomorrow if you want to test things ahead of time, but – just so no one panics – I’m probably not going to be offline from 5pm till right at 7pm PST – I won’t be able to be around early before the meeting.

 

[peter grimes]

ON MAPS:

I'm not against trading screenshots. However, I'm very much against those screenshots coming into a third party's hands. So we'll need guarantees that our shots won't be traded away; we'll of course provide those same assurances.

If a third party starts to raise a real stink, forcing Piffle to hand over a screenshot, then I'd be all for sending doctored shots. But that's just about the only situation I can think of where I'd support sending fakes.

It may never even come up in the chat, after all. So maybe a smart plan is to not raise the issue ourselves, so that we lessen the likelihood of having to deal with it

As of 10 hours ago, MSN still hadn't send me a confirmation email to activate my account . I may not be able to make it if this doesn't get worked out

 

[General_W]

@Peter - I added your address to my MSN, and it gave me the option to invite you - so I tried that... maybe it will help?

(I'm sure you've already checked your SPAM folder to make sure you didn't miss the message from MSN?)

EDIT: Agenda proposal for tonight's chat is coming up soon!

 

[Memphus]

@Peter - I added your address to my MSN, and it gave me the option to invite you - so I tried that... maybe it will help?

(I'm sure you've already checked your SPAM folder to make sure you didn't miss the message from MSN?)

EDIT: Agenda proposal for tonight's chat is coming up soon!

To make things easier I named My Profile Memphus and changed my Avatar to match here

I would suggest Others do the same to allieviate confusion

 

[General_W]

Good idea Memphus... I'll do the same.

What's your MSN address? nevermind forgot I already have it!

 

[General_W]

Piffle Strategic Meeting Agenda:

Here's what I propose we set as an agenda for our upcoming meeting (in about 3 ½ hours) – I think it will be helpful to have an agenda to follow, and I'd like to send this outline to Piffle (Minus the parts that are in italics, of course!)

Agenda:

I. The Alliance – Aims and Duration 5-10 mins
What are we trying to achieve, and when do we turn on each other for the win?
(Here, I suggest the we argue for the Aim of Technological, Military, and Territory superiority via the elimination of 2 or all 3 of our rivals. The alliance ends when we're down to 3 teams, or ends when we're down to just us 2. Opinions?)

II. Starting a War 10-15 mins
Who are we fighting, and when do we start?
(This is where, I think, we push strongly for the war to break out when we get Cavalry, and for Piffle to fight Aloha [with moderate assistance from us if needed] and for us to fight Loco.)

III. Fighting the War 25-30 mins
How will we ensure and manage a level of fairness and cooperation in the war?
(If Piffle won't go for fighting Aloha on their own, this is were we progressively put options for military help on the table. Any other ideas besides transferring control or directly fighting with a handful of raiders ourselves? – Also, this is where we'll need to address the elephant in the room… Innovia… and how do deal with them if they enter the war by a) supporting Aloha, b) supporting Loco c) invading Piffle directly, or d) Confucius forbid, invading Epsilon directly.)

IV. Brotherhood 20 mins
What kind of agreements do we want on sharing each other's technology, sharing resources, trading maps, and other misc?
(This is where we'll need to reach some kind of decision on map trading. Also, trading technology in the secondary market will need to be addressed… do we contine with the laze fare approach? Or do we want to clamp down and make our Alliance more exclusive – not a bad option, since our trading options are likely going to disappear anyway once we plunge the world into war.)
​

That gives us a chat time of a little over an hour... probably optimistic. So plan for an hour and a half. Sound ok?

Please offer feedback on this agenda, as well as start discussing what positions we'd like Epsilon to take on these critical issues.

I'd like to send this agenda to Piffle an hour and a half.

 

[Memphus]

Good To go according to me!

 

[gbno1fan]

Can we have a copy of the transcript of the meeting?

Or at least a summary of how things went?

 

[Memphus]

The Chat...Sort of: From when I joined the second time...as I was kicked out after about 5 minutes...

Unfortunately I don't have the wisper room chat

Spoiler :

DaveMcW says:
it'll be a small world after astronomy
casey j says:
astro is one of the points i wanted to bring up
Whomp says:
How many units do you think we'd need to pull this off too?
General_W says:
I'm inclined to see us sign something agreeing to sweeping alliance till it's just the 3 of us... and then we can re-evaluate what we're doing... maybe continue working to crush Innovia... maybe going slightly different ways. Give us all some flexibility
casey j says:
could you guys pop a scientist while we do to nail astro quickly?
DaveMcW says:
my initial assesment is they all should die -Iraqi Information Minister
General_W says:
(before we talk force coposition, maybe we should make sure we agree on targets... who goes where... after than we can talk forces and how to get the needed tech for it)
DaveMcW says:
it really benefits us to kill everyone else before turning on each other
Conroe says:
Where is Loco in relation to you guys? if you don't mind me asking?
General_W says:
I agree with that - only potential problem is divding Innovia Land... but that's not a huge obsitcale.
General_W says:
Piffle - you guys on board for the Alliance lasting till it's just us 2 ?
DaveMcW says:
it's pretty obvious that all land division must be fair
DaveMcW says:
or else the remaining 2 civs will turn on the leader
Memphus says:
Roughly 1.5 times the Distance from you but to our East (Obviously)
General_W says:
good point. Dave.
casey j says:
probably we would be in favor. hard to say without a team vote. would we set a time when anything goes or would we do a spacerace or what? when it is just the 2
General_W says:
well - we'd have to work on the finer points, but I'd say something like, when Innovia is down to a certain number of cities left (3?) then we start negotiations on what happens when they're gone. If there's no agreement on what to do... then yeah, it's a jungle.
DaveMcW says:
space or culture most likely
DaveMcW says:
I think if we distribute land fairly, it will be quite difficult to backstab each other for domination
General_W says:
and we'll both be highly militarized
DaveMcW says:
but domination is an option if the other team plays too peacefully
casey j says:
it would be intriguing to leave the war option open at that point
General_W says:
like I said, I think if we're all agreed to take it down to us as the final 2 - then we can agree on what happens next when it's closer.
General_W says:
After all, there's quite a road between here and the final 2
Memphus says:
Well to me if we are in alliance until 2 teams are left then to each is thier own on how they play
Whomp says:
Does it make sense to gift units?
Whomp says:
so the other teams don't think it's a 2 on 1?
General_W says:
I like that idea... which bring us to war strategy.... so, are we agreed on the broad outlines of our goals and duration of the Alliance?
Memphus says:
I think it would even be a good idea to stagger the war being enacted (I.E one of us declares 5-10 turns before the other)
General_W says:
So - Piffle.... do you guys need to vote before this is settled? or what should we do as far as moving on to the next steps of planning?
Whomp says:
The advantage of one team is the others think they're ganging up when they may get backdoored
Whomp says:
We will need to finalize but I think what's discussed amongst us three will influence a lot
Whomp says:
meaning Conroe and 'Cane
General_W says:
ok - that's good enough for me - but we'll proceed on the assumption that we've got an alliance till it's just us 2.
Conroe says:
I'm OK with it ...
Memphus says:
Haha (no one listens to me either...but then I play the save )
General_W says:
II. Starting a War Who are we fighting, and when do we start?
Whomp says:
red coats and cavs
General_W says:
ok - we agree
Memphus says:
Gunpowder & Mil Tradition?
Conroe says:
Astronomy would be good to
General_W says:
For Epsilon, yeah... maybe Piffle starts shortly after with Rifiling
Conroe says:
ie Galleons
DaveMcW says:
yeah, I think the 3 key techs are Mil Trad, Rifling, Astronomy
General_W says:
Personally, I don't think we want to wait for Astronomy.... gives too much time for others to get Cav themselves.... or not?
DaveMcW says:
Piffle needs rifles to beat cossacks
Memphus says:
Well considering we are getting it with Liberalism...that is a huge leg up.
Conroe says:
We are so far away from everybody, that we pretty much need the Galleons
DaveMcW says:
so we can get astronomy while they wait
Memphus says:
You have no land bridge to Aloha?
Whomp says:
water
Conroe says:
we have a land bridge, but it is the loooooong way around
Memphus says:
Calvary Run Fast on Roads (6 Moves turn faster than 4 of a gelleon)
DaveMcW says:
yeah, our bridge to Loco is the same
Whomp says:
we're much closer by water still
casey j says:
so where are we in 20 turns techwise?
Memphus says:
20 turns we Have Military Tradition and gunpowder and are building cavalry
Conroe says:
We are looking at 40+ tiles between our closest city and Aloha's closest city
Conroe says:
6 tiles by sea
DaveMcW says:
Epsilon can beeline for Liberalism in ~20 turns
DaveMcW says:
less with gold supplements
casey j says:
?
Whomp says:
gpt
casey j says:
you mean astro dave?
DaveMcW says:
er, I'm just making up random numbers
DaveMcW says:
what are ALL the techs we need?
Whomp says:
he's saying if we give gpt they can speed it up. right dave?
DaveMcW says:
yes
Memphus says:
To Get To Milt Tradition we need
Memphus says:
1. Nationalism
Memphus says:
2. Liberalism Sling
General_W says:
and Music
DaveMcW says:
3. Gunpowder
DaveMcW says:
4. Horseback Riding
Memphus says:
With Nationalism costing more science it makese sense for us to get it while Pfiffle learns the wisdom of Liberalism.
General_W says:
I think Piffle should research Liberalism (1400) while we get Nationalism(1800) first and give it to you.
Piffle then finishes Liberalism and picks Military Tradition(2000) as their free tech, and shares both with Epsilon.

General_W says:
After Epsilon get's Nationalism, we'll start work immediately on getting Guilds (1000) and Gunpowder (1200) – as soon as we have both, we'll give it to you for Replaceable Parts (1800).

General_W says:
which you can get after the Liberalism Sling
DaveMcW says:
guilds is not needed
DaveMcW says:
we have education
General_W says:
oh - tht's an OR tech... ok.
General_W says:
good catch
Conroe says:
need banking (and guilds) for replaceable parts
General_W says:
hmmm. there you go
General_W says:
ok... so we get guilds and banking while Piffle goes for Astronomy
General_W says:
wait... need to pencil this...
Memphus says:
.....all the while both teams can be building cavalry...
casey j says:
well we need gunpowder
General_W says:
well - we need gunpowder
DaveMcW says:
someone has to pick up gunpower + horseback riding
General_W says:

DaveMcW says:
jinx
General_W says:
(getting closer...)
Whomp says:
who has hbr now? Aloha?
Whomp says:
i'm sure that's BCLG and Robi's m.o.
Conroe says:
Aloha doesn't
Whomp says:
wow...hmm
Conroe says:
Unless Loco has it, then nobody does
Whomp says:
ok well there you go
Whomp says:
it needs to be researched it seems
General_W says:
I worked it in
General_W says:
here's a draft plan...
General_W says:
Piffle: Finishes Printring press, Epsilon: Finishes Education
General_W says:
Then E goes for Nationalism (1800) while P does Liberalism (1400) timed to finish after we send Nationalism to you
General_W says:
MiliTrad is the free tech
General_W says:
then, P does Guilds (1000) while E does Gunpowder (1200)
General_W says:
and after Guilds, Piffle goes for Banking (700)
General_W says:
while Epsilon does HBR (250)
General_W says:
then it's on to Astronomy (2000) for us - while you head down Replaceable Parts(1800) and Rifiling (2400)
General_W says:
while you're doing Rifiling, our options are pretty open at Epsilon
General_W says:
Steam? Checm?? Sci Method?
General_W says:
but we can all be building Cavalry very early this way
General_W says:
and get boats very soon
Conroe says:
I think that is going to take too long. When the other teams see us pick up MT, they are kind of going to get an inkling that something may be up
DaveMcW says:
maybe we should take Astronomy from Liberalism then?
General_W says:
I thought of that... but unless we want to use our free tech on Guilds... I'm not sure what else to do... I guess we could use it on NAtionalism while we go down the Banking path
DaveMcW says:
same beaker cost, and still a useful prebuild
General_W says:
oh yeah - Astronomy.
General_W says:
that could really work
casey j says:
we can pool a GS from each of us to get astro
casey j says:
take mil trad, then trade GSs to one or the other, pop astro
casey j says:
then do the easier stuff
Conroe says:
we need to lightbulb gunpowder somehow ... be building cav while we research astronomy, etc
casey j says:
loco is getting guns i thought
Memphus says:
or find a way to have another civ research it...
General_W says:
What if we use Liberalism to get Astronomy, Then Piffle gets Gunpowder, while Epsilon goes for Banking
General_W says:
we leave Nationalism-> MT for last?
DaveMcW says:
I haven't heard a good argument for delaying MT yet
General_W says:
not worried about tipping the other teams off?
staceyhaynes@hotmail.com says:
Got to go - Good Night, gentlemen

staceyhaynes@hotmail.com has left the conversation.

Conroe says:
My first choice would be to take MT from Liberalism. But, I think we need to get after Gunpowder PDQ
General_W says:
Perhaps we should just agree that we want MilTrad, Astronomy, and Rifling asap – and then leave it to our forums to try to hammer out the best path to do that?
We’ll lock that down later, and move on to other matters for now?

Whomp says:
Could we pool GS?
DaveMcW says:
I would only pool GS if it speeds up our invasion date
casey j says:
well you said that you were working a deal for guns from loco. is that not on any more? we could do something with the others for guilds/hbr or whatever.
DaveMcW says:
if you wait till Rifling to invade, I think Epsilon could pick up Gunpower/Astronomy without GS
General_W says:
Our relationship with Loco is a bit odd... we have some sorta deals that may help us get to guilds quickly... but with our deal with you, they may be to slow.
General_W says:
I know that sounds odd - but that's how it is. They're not good at communicating
Memphus says:
Or maytbe not...I could open the save and them have proposed the trade
Conroe says:
I don't think we can wait until Rifling to invade. Have ya'll noticed Aloha's GNP and MFG graphs since they built the HG?
Conroe says:
We need to hit them sooner before they get too strong
General_W says:
yeah - I was going to say that I think Epsilon should attack as soon as we get our hands on Cavalry... save the red-coats for re-inforcements my uneducated 2 cents.
DaveMcW says:
it's your call really... will you have enough cavalry before you reach Rifling?
Conroe says:
If they don't have cavs, we don't need redcoats
DaveMcW says:
anyway, we will have a spare GS to lightbulb something
Memphus says:
Exaclty you just need coats for when they get to cossacks.
casey j says:
speaking of, i assume we are under no trade clauses for all these techs without the others consent.
General_W says:
It's probably time for us to agree to something like that. ESP on gunpoweder and MT - but could be for the others also
DaveMcW says:
anything that enables cavalry really
Whomp says:
no pikes is big
Whomp says:
it's the path for sure
DaveMcW says:
yeah, might as well say no trading at all then
Whomp says:
unless the other partner agrees?
DaveMcW says:
yep
DaveMcW says:
we'll probably ask you to approve fund-raising deals with loco
Whomp says:
will you guys be able to bring us up to speed on some techs that we've missed due to some trades we've missed with innovia?
General_W says:
Yeah - before I got on that train, I'd want to make sure Piffle is ok with us selling some techs to Loco to keep our reserach at 100% as much as possible. Nothing related to Pikes, or Cavalry, of course.
casey j says:
how far behind are loco
General_W says:
I'd say - if you're ok with selling some old techs to Loco, we could probably just gift you something like Music etc.
General_W says:
Loco is pretty backwards
General_W says:
no Civil Service even
Whomp says:
eek
Whomp says:
i think we can work with you on some techs to them
Conroe says:
How about we invade loco, instead?
Whomp says:
keep em fat and happy
General_W says:
lol
General_W says:
it's a long trip
DaveMcW says:
hehe, we will pay you to stay away from them
Whomp says:

Conroe says:
Even longer without a map
General_W says:
so - what do you say to us gifting you music, and you look the other way while we sell some techs to Loco... nothing militaryily serious
General_W says:
after all - we still have to attack them
General_W says:
otherwise - we agree - no trading without the other team's consent.
Whomp says:
will you tell us what?
Conroe says:
How were you planning on getting Gunpowder from them if they don't even have CS?
General_W says:
I'm not sure how that rumor got started... Did I say that in a chat?
General_W says:
We were going to get guilds from them
General_W says:
or try to, anyway
General_W says:
they never exactly agreed to that even
General_W says:
oh - and yeah, we'll tell you what techs we sell. sorry
Whomp says:
is there anything we can trade to get feud from innovia?
General_W says:
We've got it
Whomp says:
we were trying to get it and then you guys traded for it
Conroe says:
yeah, but we don't have anything to offer you guys
General_W says:
hmmm
Whomp says:

General_W says:
well... I have a thought.
General_W says:
see if my team-mates jump on me for this
Conroe says:
We are up Paper, Compass, and Optics on Innovia that we could trade for Feudalism
General_W says:
but I think you're getting the more difficult task in fighting Aloha than we are in fighting Loco... we could consider Feudalism a military-aid package to help balance things out.
Conroe says:
Well, not all of it, of course
General_W says:
Any thoughts on that?
Whomp says:
Well knowing their players I'd agree with that.
DaveMcW says:
*jumps General_w*
General_W says:

Memphus says:
Memphus joins in the beating...where did the farm go?
casey j says:
does innovia have guilds
Memphus says:
Maybe we can consider Feudalism and Music as a Military Purchase.
Memphus says:
I.e. Those techs = 1 or 2 Redcoats down the line.
General_W says:
Innovia doesn't have guilds at last check.
DaveMcW says:
nah, I'm fine with it
DaveMcW says:
we need good allies more than partially used techs
Memphus says:
1500 Science for 110 hammers is still pretty good though...
Whomp says:
I think that's pretty fair
casey j says:
so in 20 turns, let me visualize
casey j says:
we are done with slingshot
General_W says:
I'd agree with that. // AFAIK... Loco is the only team working on Guilds.
casey j says:
and then epsilon will begin on guns
casey j says:
what is guns cost?
General_W says:
1200
casey j says:
so that is ~12 turns depending on gold, give or take a few
DaveMcW says:
we would like some gpt to speed through gunpowder research
casey j says:
i thought you were milking the loco cow
DaveMcW says:
we'll try, but they don't give very right milk
DaveMcW says:
*rich milk
General_W says:
we can either get gold or guilds from Loco - (probably) - but certainly not both
DaveMcW says:
it costs 42gpt to run 100% science right now
General_W says:
it's going to have to be one or the other.
DaveMcW says:
if gunpowder is the bottleneck, it makes sense to coordinate on it
Conroe says:
The problem is we are going to need to get Astronomy while you are doing gunpowder
DaveMcW says:
that GS plan sounds pretty good for Astronomy
General_W says:
Moving on to the last item on the agenda now? Iron out the rest of this via letter later?
General_W says:
IV. Brotherhood 20 mins
What kind of agreements do we want on sharing each other's technology, sharing resources, trading maps, and other misc?
General_W says:
for starters - we have extra gems.
General_W says:
and soon we hope to have whales to trade
Whomp says:
i think maximizing each of our empires makes sense
General_W says:
will you guys be picking up some surplus resources anytime soon?
Whomp says:
hmm i'm not sure we're there yet
Conroe says:
It is possible, we have been having a tough time with the barbs -- lost a city to them already
General_W says:
yeowch
Conroe says:
I haven't prioritized hooking up spare resources
Memphus says:
Well now just think each "double" turn into a trade
Whomp says:
ultimately we will have them but there's so much to do
Memphus says:
...and so little time
Whomp says:

General_W says:
well gentlemen - we've had some good converstaion - perhaps we should call it a night, go back to our teams, and put some work into the details?
Whomp says:
Agreed. I'm slipping fast. : oldman:
DaveMcW says:
who is on the west coast anyway?
General_W says:
I'm sure my pregnant wife wouldn't mind a bit of my attention tonight, as well
Whomp says:
midwest here
Memphus says:
Some of us live in the middle
Whomp says:
chicago
General_W says:
oh yeah - it's early, but my wife is 9 months along... so it's a different schedule
Conroe says:
Congratulations on the little one, Gen W!
Memphus says:
but in Canada
General_W says:
Thanks!
Whomp says:
you have quite a wife there mister

Not all participants can view handwriting, so your messages will be sent as text

Whomp says:
putting up with your video shenanigans and now a baby!!
General_W says:
oh man - do I ever know it
Whomp says:
well the good news is you'll be getting 3 hours of sleep at a time
General_W says:
lol... thanks for the encouragement!
General_W says:

General_W says:
Goodnight gentlemen.... to World Domination togeather!
Memphus says:
Well Goodnight Gentlemen I have to wake up early to play a save (crosses fingers)...Gotta keep the up the reputation of having the fastest turnaround
Whomp says:
Night guys
Conroe says:
Good night!
DaveMcW says:
goodnight
Whomp says:
night all!

 

[peter grimes]

I logged the whisper room chat on my home computer, but I won't be able to post it for about 11 hours from this post.