Oil, is it important?

[sourboy]

In today's world, yes oil is important. Why? Take it away from everyone in your city and see what happens.

 

[El_Machinae]

I know that this is like insane but really, is oil important? Many alternatives are there like biofuel, ethanol, etc. Some says that oil will ran out by 2040. Is this true?

Oil is really, really important. We do need to replace it, too, because it's going to get more and more expensive to harvest. What we need are people to excel in chemistry and help look for solutions

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Oh sorry but I'm referring this naturally like letting nature work itself.

Err.... that's how fossil fuels are generally created...

 

[Irish Caesar]

Our society is very much dependent on oil; I am sure that even the most rabid supporters of biofuels do not think that ethanol is a viable, large-scale replacement for petroleum.

 

[stormbind]

What's wrong with wool insulation and walking bare foot?

 

[Mountain-God]

Oil isn't necessarily the cheapest option anyway - certainly not when we consider the wider health and ecological effects.

Either way, someone's going to pay - that seems a pretty realistic kind of logic.

Corn isn't necessarily a bad basis for ethanol/fuel productions.

It's bi-products are:
- exceptionally clean water
- a very high quality animal feed-stock or fertiliser
- carbon dioxide (which is neutral, because it only releases what was originally captured, and can be captured again
- ethanol which combusts more efficiently, and with lower emissions than petrol or diesel.

It can also be produced with zero oil products at any point and with a net gain in energy.

Search the net for some studies - there are a few around - including a few based on real working conversion plants in the USA.

On the negative - there is one bi-product that is harmful to humans which is not markedly less than other fuel alternatives - don't recall the chemical name, but it's related to formaldehyde.

Whether or not that would be an overall positive trade-off, I'd like to see some study...

DEFINITIONS
When I say 'oil', I mean fossil-oil.
When I say 'ethanol', I mean bio-ethanol.

 

[Ball Lightning]

We are dependant on oil, but in 2007, for the first time ever the amount of oil we get out of the ground has decreased.

Oil discoveries are now below 10 a year which is the lowest since the 1940s.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

<snip>

National Geographic strikes again!

I read an article about alternative fuels. There are a number of failures with corn, the largest being that there is not enough arable land available to produce the amount of ethanol fuel necessary to provide for the world. The other problem is that comparatively speaking, ethanol has a low energy efficiency. A better choice would be sugarcane, which burns more energy, cleaner, for less. Much of Brazil's current fuel alternatives consist of sugarcane products.

An experimental, although potentially superior alternative would be algae. It would not impact existing agricultural practices, and it is much simpler to grow and maintain. While theoretically it is the most energy-efficient alternative, the technology will only be commercially feasible if the overall cost is cheaper than oil.

 

[skadistic]

National Geographic strikes again!

I read an article about alternative fuels. There are a number of failures with corn, the largest being that there is not enough arable land available to produce the amount of ethanol fuel necessary to provide for the world. The other problem is that comparatively speaking, ethanol has a low energy efficiency. A better choice would be sugarcane, which burns more energy, cleaner, for less. Much of Brazil's current fuel alternatives consist of sugarcane products.

An experimental, although potentially superior alternative would be algae. It would not impact existing agricultural practices, and it is much simpler to grow and maintain. While theoretically it is the most energy-efficient alternative, the technology will only be commercially feasible if the overall cost is cheaper than oil.

Algae is very promising. The thing with ethanol is growing the most productive crop for the climate and soil. Brazil and other tropical climates can do sugar cane. The American south and similar climates can use sugar beets. Corn is deff. not the answer.

 

[Fetus4188]

My bet's on methane.

My bet is on liquid hydrogen, because that's what is engineered to use and probably the only thing that will work without making it blow up. You can't just switch fuels around in liquid rocket engines.

 

[Narz]

I know that this is like insane but really, is oil important?

Yes.

Many alternatives are there like biofuel, ethanol, etc.

Alternative implies that we can run our infrastructure on these with little to no impact on current economic trends. Therefore neither biofuel, ethanol nor etc. are alternatives.

Some says that oil will ran out by 2040. Is this true?

Oil won't ever run out. We'll never extract it all. Some oil is so deep that it costs more energy to extract it then we will get in return.

Many, if not most, experts (oil geologists not economists, remember I said "experts" ) estimate we've reached peak extraction as of 2006. Estimated decline rates vary from 1 to 5% a year, forever. We may, however be able to plateu for a little while (maybe 'till 2011 or 12) and keep the world economy afloat. However, it is unlikely that within five years we'll be able to transition the whole world to a new primary fuel source in time. That would be nothing short of a miracle.

Overshoot : William R. Catton

PowerDown : Richard Heinberg

The Long Emergecny : James Howard Kunstler

Eating Fossil Fuels: Oil, Food And the Coming Crisis in Agriculture : Dale Allen Pfeiffer

Then we'd find another fuel?

We = someone else (maybe an economist ?).

Free market to the rescue.


Zhuge, if you want more info or are interested in discussions related to your interest check out The Peak Oil Forums. Lot of diverse opinions there, from extreme cornicopian to hardcore doomer types. Entertaining and educational. Alot of back to the land types too who have all sorts of skills relating to food growing, storage, hunting, fishing, canning, animal rearing, tool making, green building, all sorts of stuff.

Personally, I believe our way of life will change dramatically in the coming few decades. As for complete global economic collapse, only time will tell.
"Prepare for the worst but try for the best".

 

[Ball Lightning]

Oil won't ever run out. We'll never extract it all. Some oil is so deep that it costs more energy to extract it then we will get in return.

Many, if not most, experts (oil geologists not economists, remember I said "experts" ) estimate we've reached peak extraction as of 2006. Estimated decline rates vary from 1 to 5% a year, forever. We may, however be able to plateu for a little while (maybe 'till 2011 or 12) and keep the world economy afloat. However, it is unlikely that within five years we'll be able to transition the whole world to a new primary fuel source in time. That would be nothing short of a miracle.

Oil wont suddenly run out. It will probably plateu for a few years then start to decrease. As demand goes up higher and higher because of china and soon india the price will continue to go up. When oil starts to fall in production some time from 2010 to 2015 and demand continues to go up the price will start getting rediculous that people will want another way which will be much cheaper.

 

[Princeps]

Petrolium resources are some of the greatest material prices in human history.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Petrolium resources are some of the greatest material prices in human history.

What the hell does this mean?

 

[ArneHD]

Oil is far too important to waste on fuel when there are so many applications within just about every branch of chemistry for it.

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

Oh yeah! The bunsen burner! I always use that when doing experiments.

Maybe in the near future, because of high prices of oil, people will just walk to save money.

 

[Princeps]

What the hell does this mean?

Sorry, I meant material prizes.

(Prize, as in anything striven for, worth striving for, or much valued.)

 

[Fetus4188]

Bunsen burners run on methane. What are you talking about?

 

[mark_c]

My bet is on liquid hydrogen, because that's what is engineered to use and probably the only thing that will work without making it blow up. You can't just switch fuels around in liquid rocket engines.

What natural reserves of liquid hydrogen do we have?

 

[ArneHD]

Bunsen burners run on methane. What are you talking about?

Bunsen Burners run on Butane or a Butane/Propane mix.