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Ok, now, what do i build sir ?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Percy, Mar 4, 2005.

  1. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    hello =)

    i have been encountering a "problem" since i've moved up in level to monarch/emperor. there, the tech pace is usually a bit lower than in previous levels (because i run at min science, more lux%, etc) which means that i usually have the time to deplete the list of improvements for my cities. my question is the following: what do you do with cities that cannot build any more improvement, and that you cannot afford to build more armies (upkeep cost in republic is too high, for example).
    also, when you have a city that is designated to be only a unit producer, but you don't want to build units there yet (same upkeep problem as above), do you still develop it ? if not, what do you do ? put it on Wealth ?
    last, since i'm going to do the 0%/min research thing, should i consider building libraries AT ALL ? i will not try a cultural victory anyway, and if i play dom, i usually raze cities (i have enough with my cities, and i usually strike the AI to kill it).

    thanks for your help =)
     
  2. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    It depends on your game. You have to plan ahead a bit. On a recent game I ran into a similar situation and started building expensive military units so I'd have fewer, more powerful units. But it sounds like you've already built a few too many units with respect to your budget.

    If you're working on a tech that has a building you want you can prebuild using palace, a wonder, an expensive building or an expensive unit and then switch to your building (marketplace, aqueduct, harbor) after you finish the tech.

    You can micromanage your citizens to produce less shields and more food or commerce to slow down unit prodcution or to slow down a prebuild to make it not finish before the tech is researched.

    As for libraries, again plan ahead. If you can build them shortly before increasing research, go for it. Other than that, more strategy is involved.

    Do you know all your rivals yet? In Monarch and especially Emperor it is important to meet everyone and learn how to broker techs advantageously. You might be able to swing a deal to get your marketplaces (or whatever) now. In future games send a couple of scouting units out to find all your rivals early. (This is extra extra important in C3C.) Or you can learn writing (in vanilla and PTW) and trade contacts with everyone.

    EDIT: In the ancient age (or any expansion/growth period) I don't like to sacrifice growth (food). Putting citizens on water increases commerce and decreases shields, but unless it's fresh water or the city has a harbor it takes away food/growth to put citizens on the water. I think I'd rather run a tight budget and keep food going strong in early parts of the game.

    I forgot to put my first thought in: Build workers. Most people don't make enough, and if you honestly have nothing for them to do they still are useful for adding pop points to other cities or disbanding later for full shield value.

    Speaking of workers, are all of your city tiles roaded? That adds 1g per tile per turn.
     
  3. IbnSina

    IbnSina Former Lurker

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    This has never happened to me. I always need more units. I'll pay for them - just give me more units! If you can't afford them, then you do not have enough roads, markets, banks, etc. - build more roads, and then make more units!
     
  4. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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  5. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    i use workers, i road my tiles, etc. but that's not really the point of the question. the point is, when you do not want to build more military units (because you are not at war, don't need them, whatever, and prefer to earn money than paying for units that don't do anything), do you:
    - still build things even if you don't need them, like a barracks in every city?
    - put your production on wealth, or go for units anyway, thus forcing you into a war with a neighbour to actually use what you've created?

    also, i'm talking about an hypothetic situation, with neighbours met, workers produced, tiles roaded/mined/irrigated, etc. it happened to me many times, that i had to put them on wealth, and i felt it was a waste, i wanted to know if it was or not.

    @tim
    do you mean conquering other cities ? usually, i am reluctant to conquering foreign cities, far from home, when i am already far above the optimal number of cities.
     
  6. Brain

    Brain Lost in thought

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    Have you finished expanding? If you're still in despotism build more cities to increase your unit support. Build workers to improve your land. Trade techs to be able to build other improvements. If you can't trade use all those units to explore and find more contacts. If you've done all those things already you may want to consider a wonder.
     
  7. IbnSina

    IbnSina Former Lurker

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    You need the units to conquer other cities, which can then support more units. You're right - that's what TimBentley meant.

    If you really want to play peacefully, I suppose putting cities on wealth is an option, but the return on that investment is so low that I almost never do it. Follow the historical pattern: empires that have too much wealth always squander it on conquest.
     
  8. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    @ibn
    i don't want to play peacefully. but i don't want to attack when i'm not ready just because i have 3 cities that cannot produce anything else.

    @brain
    let's assume for the sake of the question that i have finished all that. i'm pretty sure it's what happened in the games that led me to this question, anyway. and is it worth it to try and build a wonder that is 40 turns away ?
     
  9. Brain

    Brain Lost in thought

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    You can still switch to a wonder. If you don't want to actually build the wonder you can just use it to pre-build an expensive building that you know is going to come along soon.
     
  10. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    well, usually, this occurs when i'm reasearching to military tradition... so i have no really interesting building/wonder to which pre-build.
     
  11. Zandrew

    Zandrew The Black Knight

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    When I've been in your situation I end up putting more and more cities on wealth. This allows me to push my research up a notch or two. If you'd rather keep research low you can build up your treasury for buying techs, bribes, etc. Building improvements you don't really need can also be a drain to your treasury because of upkeep costs, so wealth is often a better option. A situation like this only seems to arise when I have a comfortable lead, otherwise I'm building something to help me take the lead.
     
  12. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Wow, I assumed it was an AA problem. I don't recall running out of things to build after AA until the modern age.

    Are you usually on an island by yourself at this point? (You mentioned enemy cities being far away.) If not, attack your neighbor. Your production is your strength; putting it on wealth is wasteful in a productive city, and in most cases you're better off building a military unit to beat on your neighbor than to "build" wealth. You could probably attack even if you are on an island.

    I will sometimes put corrupt cities on wealth to make 1spt=1gpt and irrigate to feed lots of taxmen/scientists, so far away cities aren't worthless, and in your hands they deny benefit to your enemies, which is ultimately what you're trying to do: make yourself better than the other civs.

    I guess I'm stumped about libraries. I would have built them by Metallurgy if I were doing any self research. And after libraries come universities.
     
  13. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    well, the thing is that i often beeline to MT, so i don't have much to build. the thing is, to allow for the maximum efficiency in research, i often focus on income/science (so i tend to limit my units, as it is quickly expensive in republic). that means i have only defensive units, and a few of them. i really cannot decently decide to go to war after 2 of my cities build a couple of knights =) and if i wait longer, the upkeep for the knights build up, so it's a waste.
     
  14. IbnSina

    IbnSina Former Lurker

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    Why would you beeline to MT when you are ambivalent about going to war? You're not going to war to put your cities to work, you're going to war to take stuff from the AIs. It's fairly simple: If you want to play aggressively, make your beeline to MT, build units, and use those units and military advantage to take stuff from everyone else and win the game. If you don't want to play aggressively, then take the education track and build universities and banks everywhere to try to gain a technological and economic advantage, then broker techs and win the game. If you want to play at a low level always, then beeline to MT but don't build units or conquer anything, and have all your cities make wealth.
     
  15. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    you seem to misunderstand me. i thought it was pretty clear though.
    i beeline to MT. when i have MT, before everyone else (at my level of difficulty), i make all my cities produce units. 30 turns later, i have a huge army and can wage war. if i were building these units before, it'd weigh on my budget and slow my research. also, i'm not conquering cities to take stuff from the AI, i'm conquering cities to kill off the AI.
     
  16. El Dorko Grande

    El Dorko Grande Total and utter bastard

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    In that case you just build lots and lots of units you can upgrade to cavalry.

    Expensive, I know, but if you're ahead in the tech race you can sell advantages to pay for the upkeep and/or upgrade. Then you can really go and kick ass once you've got MT!!
     
  17. Percy

    Percy Cow who laughs

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    that's not really the problem... i mean, i have no difficulty to getting lots of units once i have MT, the thing was more of a general question, that i happen to encounter with this precise strategy (that i used as an example) but which could happen in a number of other situations, including variants of any sorts.
    so basically: when you have a "complete" city, do you put on wealth or do you build the extra improvements that you do not need/want ?
     
  18. nullspace

    nullspace King

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    I think this is a pretty weird problem that you're having. Isn't the point of a "complete" city the ability to make money and build units at maximum efficiency? So when you've got the city done, but it to use. Especially if you're planning to go to war soon, any unit will be useful.

    In your example, my complete cities would be building musketmen or cannons or knights (to upgrade to cavalry). All of those will be useful when you go to war. You seem to be overly concerned about unit upkeep costs, but a useful unit that fights often is always worth the cost.

    If you build some of your units now rather than later, you can go to war sooner, and that will make up for the money lost to upkeep. Those units you build now will cost money until you start fighting (and the investment pays off). But, if you don't build units until after you discover military tradition, it will take you several more turns until you have enough units to start fighting. That's several turns of upkeep for your entire army before it becomes useful. Also that delay costs several turns of production from cities you would have captured, and allows the enemy to build more units before you fight. The important idea is to have as many useful units as possible as early as possible. And to do that, you should build the units as early and often as possible.
     
  19. El Dorko Grande

    El Dorko Grande Total and utter bastard

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    Ehm, ok, that's a problem I've never encountered!
    I always start picking fights with my neighbours as soon as I've got something that resembles an army, so I can always use some extra soldiers. Maybe that's a tip for you: Start slaughtering your opponents!
     
  20. Rwedgie

    Rwedgie Chieftain

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    If you are going for a conquest/domination then make units... if your going for culture or scientific you could put it on wealth for the extra income... but wealth isn't necessarily worth it, although economics helps if you've got that.
     

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