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[GS] Ok so what do Rock Bands actually do?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tiamats4esgares, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @Brutus2
    The +2 promotions are basically an addition 25% chance of surviving. So....
    If you do not have +2 your chance of surviving if we ignore promotions

    1 concert = 50%
    2 concerts = 25%
    3 concerts = 12%
    4 concerts = 6%

    If you do use the +2 your chance of surviving is
    1 concert = 75%
    2 concerts = 56%
    3 concerts = 42%
    4 concerts = 31%

    So over 4 concerts you are roughly 5 times better off.

    Your chance of getting a promotion at level1 is only 10%, I am not sure about level3 but it is better so the odds on surviving are likely to be closer to 8x better off playing +2 events.

    Tourism value?
    Album sales are not a small thing, after 4 concerts a surviving band will have roughly 400 album sales.
    Playing a concert at a wonder without album sales and getting a “creative differences” gives you 2000 tourism
    Playing the same concert with the same result with album sales gives you 6000 tourism
    It is all about album sales.
    Playing a concert with +2 is a pain because they seem to be the 250 venues. So the tourism you get is not great but we tend to overthink how small that is compared to a wonder. Basically a wonder gives you 4x the tourism of a +2 venue but the album sales are the same... and you can see from above that album sales triple your wonder tourism later.

    The right answer in my eyes
    The issue is a little complex because there are 12 different promotions and not all are +2, a couple are specialised +1 that work as well as a wonder and there are quite a few others. So you cannot get all your bands +2 anyway.

    The odds seem stacked toward getting +2 ones when you get the chance but only if you have the venues to play them, you need about 4 to be ready for a Wonder megaconcert.
    How many wonders does the main opposition have? If they only have 2 wonders then maybe I use one for non +2 bands but keep one in case they survive.
    Certainly if I am playing a non wonder concert without +2 I would rather play it at a campus or harbour because they are double the tourism of entertainment districts and theaters but half that of wonders.
    If I am close to winning a CV I would probably just thrash bands at wonders as they always produce some tourism and 2000 tourism for a ban is not bad.

    Hopefully this answers your question to a large degree, you still have to make choices yourself, this version of the game is more about choices than winning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Thank you! It is getting these stats that stopped me getting to the bottom of spies.
     
  3. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    In the meantime ,as someone who never had enough time to finish its first game , I don't get what records are (I mean the in-game object , not irl ty) . Can someone briefly summarize this part of the mechanism ?
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It is in the formula for calculating the tourism from a concert. Records (albums) you get at a concert do not help that concert they help the next one.

    The formula for tourism produced is Venue + (Venue*culturebomb%) + (venue*albums%)

    So if playing a wonder (value 1000) and your band dies due to creative differences (value 100) and the band has no albums you get
    1000 + (1000*100%) + (1000*0%) = 2000 tourism

    However if your band had already played 4 concerts and gained the average of 400 album sales you get
    1000 + (1000*100%) + (1000*400%) = 6000 tourism

    That is a hell of a lot of difference so it is worth knowing how many album sales your band has... as per below
    upload_2019-2-22_9-41-35.png

    KEY POINT: Levelling up is not easy for rock bands but the longer you survive the more album sales you make giving you the power to get even 10,000 tourism from a wonder despite disbanding due to creative differences.

    Bands are quite a different concept where a concert where you got 5 stars was a failure of a concert but the critics liked it so you got lots of album sales which attracts more people to your next event.

    Album sales means more people turn up to your next concert basically.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  5. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    Tourism= venue*(1+cultureBombRate+averageAlbumSales/100) , got it !
    Ty very much for your (once again) very didactic expanation !

    Looking forward for your futur guide on DV and world congress ( I know it will come at some point, you seem very attracted to explaining fuzzy mechanism and we all love that you do since you do it so well )
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    that can be taken 2 ways, apologies, I am a teacher by trade and we do slip into didactic habits for clarity.
    Nice formula, much more mathematical than mine... should it be
    Tourism= venue*(1+((cultureBombRate+averageAlbumSales)/100)) ?

    To me sometimes the formula becomes less clear when you contract it.

    Tourism = Venue + (Venue*(culturebomb/100)) + (venue*(albums/100))
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  7. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    The parenthesis are not needed as 'addition' is 'communative ans associative' over itself , and mutiplication/division is prime over addition.

    As for the 'two ways' ,I guess I'm not enough of a native speaker to see it. Whatever the ambiguity ,It was meant it as a compliment and a thank you.
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I tried yours in excel because it looked odd , it gave me 105,000 tourism instead of 6000. That would be a touch OP.
     
  9. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    well the cultureBombRate is meant as a % (hence the rate) , so don't forget to either tell excel that it is , or divide by 100.
     
  10. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    1000 + (1000*100%) + (1000*400%) =(factorizing the 1000) 1000 *(1+100/100+400/100) = 1000 * (1+1+4) = 1000 * 6 = 6000

    As for the contraction , in effect it helps showing that tourism generated increase linearly with venue and the linear factor depends on the sum of records +culture bomb.
    It could be a biais of working with data for a trade but for instance it puts into perspective any additional information that might come. For instance if something makes me choose between a +10 in venue or a +10% in records ,say.. .
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    My Excel workings
    upload_2019-2-22_10-46-27.png

    Sure... if you are good at maths... I am not...well I was top at school but hated it and never went to Uni.
     
  12. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain Supporter

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    Yeah come to the contraction version.. come to the math ...you'll see the line ! (see what I did there ? )

    Seriously tho, yeah divide O23/100 then ;).Your O23 is not a % here but a raw figure meant to be used as a %. If you feel more comfortable adding records and culturebomb before dividing by 100 , it does make sense from the task (that's how they are displayed in game after all) , so fine with me.

    EDIT : seriously tho (bis) ,I'm pretty sure you'll catch up on your math at some point , judging from your taste for data analysis. I guess you Uni courses did not use Civ as a sample study ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    So... I guess its useful to list the promotions here

    4 +2 level starters
    Album Cover Art Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on wonder tiles.
    very powerful... the #1 choice for better chances of lost of large fast culture... Just remember though, you can only play each wonder once.

    Arena Rock Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Entertainment Complex district tiles.
    Glam Rock Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Theater Square district tiles.
    Reggae Rock Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Water Park district tiles.

    3 +1 level specialists

    Music Festival Performs at National Parks for expected 1000 Tourism and 1 level more experienced.
    Better than playing a wonder at level 1. You really need a few national parks (pfft) or have nothing better to take.

    Space Rock Performs at Spaceports for expected 1000 Tourism and 1 level more experienced.
    Better than playing a wonder at level 1. You really need a few spaceports or have nothing better to take.

    Surf Band Performs at Seaside Resorts for expected 500 Tourism and 1 level more experienced.
    If there are a lot of resorts this could be a good option, 1 level at 50 rather than 2 levels at 250 is more risk for better reward early

    5 Uniques
    Goes to 11 Civilizations within 10 tiles receive 50% of the Tourism6 Tourism from this concert.
    This is a promotion you give to a powerful band ready to play wonders attracting many thousands of tourists. I think in one of the livepay's Ed mentioned using this to finish off a CV at the Pyramids.

    Indie Performing a concert causes that city to lose 50 Loyalty.
    This is a stupidly OP band. Basically the band is guaranteed to remove 50 loyalty from a city. So get 2 indie bands and you can flip any city in the world. Ugh! Naturally you will still get tourism and album sales but it is flipping hell. Remember, they will not flip to your civm they will become free and then likely flip back to the opposition unless on the borders of their empire. This is certainly an Eleanor band that can break the loyalty monopoly in an area rapidly.

    Pop Star Earn Civ6Gold Gold equal to 50% of the Tourism generated.
    When you are level 3 taking this promotion becomes obscene. thousands of gold per concert, yes please... but then who needs more gold.

    Religious Rock Performs a concert that converts the majority religion of that city to the religion founded by the player.
    Weirdly you cannot play this at a temple... I guess that makes sense as you are about to flip it.... this buffs RV's but RV's have finished way before the cold war. May be useful for defender of the faith or other such 'tricks' like loyalty pressure changes.

    Roadies +4 Movement.
    Do not underestimate the value of doubling a units speed if it has to rush around for wonders.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  14. drubell

    drubell Chieftain

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    WTB: Better Civilopedia Mod by you peeps in the thread

    The sparse info of how the rock band system works in the civilopedia is just shameful
     
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  15. ExemplarVoss

    ExemplarVoss Chieftain

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    No, that's evidence of my argument. That's a British studio of a British band bringing foreign and domestic tourists to British places.

    The tourists aren't there because the Beatles once played New York, they're there because they became a segment of British culture to moon over while visiting Britain. Their foreign concerts aren't the pull to abbey road, the overall success of the band as a British phenomenon is (which honestly has a lot more to do with radio and TV than concerts)

    People go to Memphis because of its American country music status, not because some country stars played a show in Paris or Berlin at some point.

    By what you're arguing, logically bands should give a tourism per turn boost to their home city, not a randomly big tourism bonus with a specific civ.

    As is, it isn't a coherent system. Just a gamey way of moving the tourist math along when you stall against Russia or Kongo and similar civs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    ???!
    You get a free promotion when you make a rock band... are you saying you start as a level 2 band?... or have a second promotion?
     
  17. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    Oh ... sorry, I might be mistaken then, I thought it was from the alliance. Come to think of it, makes sense, same as Apostles. No I only got one promotion. Never mind then.
     
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  18. drubell

    drubell Chieftain

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    In general, at this time do you think that it's worth it to build holy sites as early as Ancient to preparation for Rock Bands in a CV, or are Holy Sites a non-priority district compared to other important districts?

    I'm slowly working on a Sweden game where I built Holy Sites as my first district in my first few cities for the long-term plan building Rock Bands in the future. But by doing this obviously I'm slow on getting other districts that are really valuable to Sweden like Campus/Theater/Commercial/Industrial.going. Seeing what you're seeing about Rock Bands, would you build Holy Sites specifically for Rock Band preparation early or much later?
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I played a deity Sweden game where I just messed around on an island peacefully with 6 cities and won a CV without a sweat forming on my brow... so the simple answer is in the current patch of GS, do what you want, have fun.
    You will need faith but you do not need religion. I am playing Maori game at the moment saving all faith for the bands and now at T130 I am pillaging a holy site for over 1000 faith, the homegrown faith just does not match the pillaged. And pillaging 300 culture is similar, do we need any buildings?
    To answer you as you want to hear, I would go for a hold site first build because it gets my government district up but I would be pushing early culture and beelining theatres. They will push you to rock bands fast, also your open air museums are quite Good once you have 10 cities.
    I would not bother with campus at all. Maybe 1-2 for inspirations but you can capture those. If playing peacefully, inspirations are key.
     
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  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I just played a Kupe Rock Band game. I only built wonders fopr tourism and when I got to rock bands I had 18,000 faith which was just enough to win
    Here is the before and after pictures.... notice Montezuma was where I got most of my tourists due to rock bands. Alsop notice how much his domestic tourists dropped.
    So many rock band deaths... My best band was Deep Purple and they died on 650 albums.... unless you have the +2 promotion for wonders you will always be around the 25% chance of fail.
    upload_2019-2-22_21-32-15.png upload_2019-2-22_21-31-46.png

    Also stats show my culture output was not affected by my rock bands
    upload_2019-2-22_21-50-23.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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