[R&F] Old growth woods, Conservation, but no added appeal?

[tai4ji2x]

(R&F, all DLCs) posted this in the bug forum, but it's not as active as this one. plus, perhaps it's not a bug and just the way it's supposed to work? would like to know before i invest more time into the game, haha.

playing as mongolia (warlord difficulty - first game and haven't played since civ4). just got the conservation civic, but none of my old growth forests are adding their supposed +2 appeal. i've skipped ahead another turn, and still nothing. that said, i am ahead of all other AI civs, so the official game-wide "modern era" hasn't been declared yet (tho all my cities, units and roads are now graphically "modern" era) - does the added appeal effect need to wait until then?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Where are you looking for the appeal gain? It should be adding to the appeal of surrounding tiles, but not the tile with the old growth forest itself. ("Should" in this case meaning how the game rules work, rather than implying any logic to such game rules.)

 

[tai4ji2x]

Where are you looking for the appeal gain? It should be adding to the appeal of surrounding tiles, but not the tile with the old growth forest itself. ("Should" in this case meaning how the game rules work, rather than implying any logic to such game rules.)

yes, i'm looking at adjacent tiles. originally planned some neighborhoods bordered by some woods, with the expectation of increased appeal after researching conservation.

here's a screencap. the starred tile has an old growth lumber mill to the west, and an old growth deer camp to the southeast. it was charming (2) before conservation was discovered and now still unchanged five turns after conservation. the game-wide modern era has not yet been declared.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

yes, i'm looking at adjacent tiles. originally planned some neighborhoods bordered by some woods, with the expectation of increased appeal after researching conservation.

here's a screencap. the starred tile has an old growth lumber mill to the west, and an old growth deer camp to the southeast. it was charming (2) before conservation was discovered and now still unchanged five turns after conservation. the game-wide modern era has not yet been declared.

I don't suppose you have any old growth Woods tiles in your game that don't have an improvement on them? Is it possible that the extra appeal is only added for Woods that don't have an improvement on them? I haven't looked at this mechanism closely.

 

[tai4ji2x]

same situation here:

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

same situation here:

I'm at a loss. I've never paid close attention to this mechanic, so I'm not sure if this an long standing issue or a bug specific to your game. There's no reason why the game hitting the modern era should have any impact, as the increased appeal from old growth woods should kick in once you've completed research the Conservation civic. But then there's no reason I can see why this tile shouldn't now be up to 5 appeal.

The UI in the game does give inaccurate information in a variety of situations. If you try to place a Neighbourhood on the tile, does the housing of the Neighbourhood match the shown appeal, or match what the appeal should be? In other words, is it possible that just tool tip is wrong?

 

[myclan]

Conservation only add appeal to the tile where the old forest is on

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Conservation only add appeal to the tile where the old forest is on

That would make it unlike any other tile appeal modifier, positive or negative.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that would be a stunning inconsistency, and suggestive of a coding error.

 

[Halcyan2]

I do recall that there was a difference between old growth and new growth forests (in Civ VI and also I believe Civ V).

I just couldn't recall if the difference is the new growth doesn't add appeal or if the new growth can't be chopped for production (or both).

 

[Scaramanga]

That would make it unlike any other tile appeal modifier, positive or negative.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that would be a stunning inconsistency, and suggestive of a coding error.

Is it? It should mean that having a stand-alone old growth forest can more easily trigger a national park. Otherwise it would need adjacent forests.

 

[tai4ji2x]

I'm at a loss. I've never paid close attention to this mechanic, so I'm not sure if this an long standing issue or a bug specific to your game. There's no reason why the game hitting the modern era should have any impact, as the increased appeal from old growth woods should kick in once you've completed research the Conservation civic. But then there's no reason I can see why this tile shouldn't now be up to 5 appeal.

The UI in the game does give inaccurate information in a variety of situations. If you try to place a Neighbourhood on the tile, does the housing of the Neighbourhood match the shown appeal, or match what the appeal should be? In other words, is it possible that just tool tip is wrong?

just tried to place a neighborhood in the tile to the east of the one i starred in the first pic (city of napata), and the adjacency bonuses are the same before and after i bought the old woods tile to the northeast. haven't bothered to wait until the neighborhood finishes building in 10 turns. if this mechanic is broken, i don't want to continue wasting my time playing. i planned my game with the intention of leaving some of these old growth woods for this purpose.

 

[tai4ji2x]

Is it? It should mean that having a stand-alone old growth forest can more easily trigger a national park. Otherwise it would need adjacent forests.

then this tile i just bought (in napata, as above), should be higher in appeal. but it isn't.

 

[Scaramanga]

then this tile i just bought (in napata, as above), should be higher in appeal. but it isn't.

Ok. So +1 for the Theater square and it should have another +1 after Conservation. Do you just have to wait a turn?

 

[tai4ji2x]

Ok. So +1 for the Theater square and it should have another +1 after Conservation. Do you just have to wait a turn?

after buying? well, it was going to become my tile in a turn anyway, so reloaded the save and just went to the next turn. still no change in either the tile itself nor the adjacent ones

considering it takes me 2+ minutes just to load a savegame and how long it takes me to micromanage a turn on its own, would just hope someone with a faster system or just happens to be in a similar situation would check for me. kinda don't want to keep spending time if this is broken...

 

[Laurana Kanan]

@tai4ji2x - Is it only with certain old-growth tiles that you observed this issue or is it ALL old-growth tiles that aren't gaining the appeal?

That would make it unlike any other tile appeal modifier, positive or negative.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that would be a stunning inconsistency, and suggestive of a coding error.

I guess in fairness the in-game text does state that, "Woods in your territory that have never been removed (old-growth) gain +1 Appeal." It doesn't mention adjacent tiles. And there are a couple Great People & the Eiffel Tower that apply the appeal bonus directly to the tile and don't depend on adjacency.

Tbh, though, I've never really paid attention to this old-growth mechanic so I'm curious if it ever did work as intended. I say this because other than text entries I couldn't find any reference to a modifier changing the appeal of old-growth woods, unless I missed it. Perhaps it's dll hard-coded, but that seems kind of odd to me.

 

[tai4ji2x]

@tai4ji2x - Is it only with certain old-growth tiles that you observed this issue or is it ALL old-growth tiles that aren't gaining the appeal?.

this is throughout my empire. i planned a lot of cities in anticipation of this. neither the tile itself nor adjacent tiles have changed. still 10-20 turns until game-wide modern era declaration.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

this is throughout my empire.

So, iow ALL old-growth tiles, correct? Not one gained appeal? I'm just trying to see if there is another possible explanation if it's only SOME tiles.

 

[tai4ji2x]

So, iow ALL old-growth tiles, correct? Not one gained appeal? I'm just trying to see if there is another possible explanation if it's only SOME tiles.

right. i haven't planted any trees anywhere anyway. i've scoured the map within all 30+ cities in my empire. nada.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

@tai4ji2x
I guess in fairness the in-game text does state that, "Woods in your territory that have never been removed (old-growth) gain +1 Appeal." It doesn't mention adjacent tiles.

It's starting to sound likely that this is the case. Possibly another example of inconsistent game mechanics where what you are led to believe from a rule you learn (terrain appeal modifiers impact all adjacent tiles but not their own tile) is applied differently to a new addition to the game.

If true, then all woods add 1 to adjacent tiles, while old growth forests also add 1 to their own tile.

 

[tai4ji2x]

It's starting to sound likely that this is the case. Possibly another example of inconsistent game mechanics where what you are led to believe from a rule you learn (terrain appeal modifiers impact all adjacent tiles but not their own tile) is applied differently to a new addition to the game.

If true, then all woods add 1 to adjacent tiles, while old growth forests also add 1 to their own tile.

but that's the thing, the old growth tiles themselves don't go up either, as shown in my above post https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ion-but-no-added-appeal.635706/#post-15202737

not even looking at the adjacency bonus - just the [old growth woods] tile itself