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Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States

Discussion in 'World History' started by Murky, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    Has anyone else seen this? They are on Youtube. What do you think? Some might find his views controversial.


    Link to video.
     
  2. Glassfan

    Glassfan Mostly harmless

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    One could say oliver Stone has built his career on "controversial".
     
  3. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    Does he still think Johnson assassinated Kennedy?
     
  4. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    The dude claimed a gay CIA conspiracy assassinated JFK. He's not controversial, he's just an idiot.
     
  5. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    I understand his past theories on JFK weren't well received, but that is separate from this series of documentaries. I have viewed several of them and although they paint a different view from standard American History they seem based on accurate accounts rather than theory.
     
  6. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    So, I watched the first couple episodes before they were taken off Youtube for copyright infringement. He tried to balance the "motivation" between the Soviet and American side (i.e. the opposition is just not a dark and faceless evil but their motivation analyzed in a similar light), but the focus on atrocities is on the American side (I assume largely due to the intended audience, it being more controversial to criticize the side you are supposedly on than the opposition).

    Side note: Oliver Stone really seems to love Henry Wallace. The episodes I saw were dripping with praise for him. While I think he's an interesting character and I'm glad there's a chance people will investigate and talk about this guy instead of That Other Wallace, it was getting a little sickening after awhile. Kind of like eating cake icing straight out of the bowl instead of using it to dress the cake.
     
  7. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    Overall, this series seems to have this theme of revealing the true nature of American Imperialism since World War II. Henry Wallace wanted less use of force and more of a friendly competition and even some cooperation between the Western Allies and the USSR. There's a lot of coverage of The Cold War era. The show that includes JFK does talk about his assassination but it doesn't directly accuse anyone. It does show that Kennedy made a lot of enemies on both sides and in the CIA mainly because of how he handled the Cuban missile crisis. The more hawkish top level officials thought it was an open window to finally defeat communism that Kennedy let slip away. It leaves the question(if there was a grand conspiracy to assassinate JFK) open to interpretation.
     
  8. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    Too bad that there was no grand conspiracy, and the question isn't open. JFK was shot by a nut job with a sniper rifle. The end.
     
  9. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    Since Oswald was killed and never tried/convicted the question technically remains open. I lean towards him as the lone assassin, but I'm not totally convinced of it.

    Edit: Further, if the hawkish people had no compunctions against killing millions what would trigger their conscience against killing one person even if that person was JFK?
     
  10. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    He was the President, for one hing. Also, Ockham's Razor.
     
  11. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    You seem pretty dismissive of the whole thing. Does it bother you that other people would spend their time investigating it? Doesn't history deserve a definitive answer based on the most complete forensic analysis?
     
  12. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    The most complete forensic evidence is what convinced me that the case is clear cut and closed. Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy. It's the needless conspiracy theories that are preventing it from having the definitive answer it deserves. They're the ones who want to claim that the credible evidence is ambiguous, when it is not.
     
  13. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    PBS Frontline did the best coverage of the JFK assassination that I know of so far in terms of examining Lee Harvey Oswald as the prime suspect. It didn't really cover how many other enemies JFK had at the time or other suspected people in any detail.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/

    That's the most definitive analysis I've seen so far and it's pretty convincing.
     
  14. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Yeah, that's a pretty good one. There was a history channel one that was similar (I think they used many of the same sources). I'm certainly willing to acknowledge the possibility that others conspired with Oswald (although there's no evidence to suggest this is true), but the physical evidence shows that Oswald fired the shots, there were three shots, and those were the shots that killed Kennedy. It's the magic bullet and grassy knoll that I object to because they are myths.
     
  15. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    It bothers me that they would waste their time on such a clear-cut issue because of stupid conspiracy that was conclusively proven false decades ago. If they want to needlessly investigate, that's their own time to waste, but don't expect me to care or feign interest. Not unless the investigator has a great rack.
     
  16. r16

    r16 not deity

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    while mechanics of the shooting is open to debate and ı once had a nearly thousand page book borrowed to read all about it , Oswald was faciliated and soon removed and he wasn't exactly a nut . It all came together because of various reasons and not even CIA could support the thesis that the Bay of Pigs would have succeeded if the USN ands later the whole of US Airpower was allowed to intervene .
     
  17. ParkCungHee

    ParkCungHee Deity

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    What if they appear on an episode of The Critic?
     
  18. Lord Baal

    Lord Baal Deity

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    I'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with that program. Was that the silly cartoon that Fox crossed over with the Simpsons against Matt Groening's will?
     
  19. Glassfan

    Glassfan Mostly harmless

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    Have you never heard of The Warren Report? You can pick it up at your local library. It's the definitive work of "complete forensic analysis" on the Kennedy Assasination.

    For a layman's review and explaination of events, see The Death of a President by William Manchester, also in your local library.

    Amen, brother.
     
  20. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    The issue with the JFK assassination conspiracy theories is that the primary support is either circumstantial, based on squinting really hard for hours at grainy photographs for shadows that could be people, or relying on immediate, confused responses that couldn't locate where the shots came from.
     

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