OMFG...I lost a battleship to a frigate!!!

[DWOLF]

how could this have happened?

the only thing I see as explainable is that my battleship was healing, but just for 1 turn. That's no excuse. I declared war on alexander & his vassal state asoka. As my navy was patrolling the sea line of alexander I saw a indian frigate waiting for me to destroy it...man was I wrong...


I was so shocked...I completely exited the game cause I couldn't believe what just happened...urgh!!!!!!!!!!!

</rant>

 

[mourndraken]

I shouldn't laugh but mabey you should pick on somebody your own size ?

 

[Ammar]

I have said it before and will do so again : I like those little flukes. It's not completely unthinkable. You get rewarded enough for being in the lead as it is.

Just use a little fantasy. Perhaps the frigate lured your battleship on a massive reef? Maybe they managed to board you at night? Or your guns malfunctioned?

 

[Wolfshanze]

how could this have happened?

Simple... you weren't playing the Wolfshanze Mod... these naval anomolies are a thing of the past.

Just use a little fantasy. Perhaps the frigate lured your battleship on a massive reef? Maybe they managed to board you at night? Or your guns malfunctioned?

Why do I hear "the reef" story every time this happens? Folks... a battleship can fire volkswagon-sized shells over 20-miles accurately... why on God's green earth, if a Frigate went into treacherous waters would a battleship follow (and why does the frigate with only wind-power always make it through the reefs, when a much more controleable battleship doesn't?). If you'd like to cling to even the slightest bit of reality, a battleship would annihilate a frigate about 20-miles away from the reef.

I also don't tink two or three hundred guys with swords and muskets are going to overwhelm a ship of 1,500 men with rifles and automatic weapons... not that the guys in a frigate would even have much luck getting over the sides of the ship (and how did the frigate get within 20 miles of the battleship without being annihilated).

You might as well start justifying the club-weilding warrior defeating the modern tank... it's just as absurd.

 

[Mortac]

Maybe not as absurd, but equally annoying, is when the AI goes on a killing spree with their transports. I mean, transports? They kill my missile cruisers one-on-one both at full health, and they severely damage my battleships. That's also ridiculous.

EDIT: Spelling

 

[Wolfshanze]

My not as absurd, but equally annoying, is when the AI goes on a killing spree with their transports. I mean, transports? They kill my missile cruisers one-on-one both at full health, and they severely damage my battleships. That's also ridiculous.

Well, I fixed that too in my mod.

 

[Bushface]

I'd love to see the combat log of that encounter. The batleship would have about 77% chance of winning a combat round and doing 34 damage (so sinking the frigate in 3 hits), while the frigate would do only 11 or 12 damage per hit and need 8 or 9 hits to sink the damaged battleship. The reported outcome is unlikely, but by no means impossible according to the game mechanics: and whoever thought for one moment that those mechanics are even loosely related to real life ?

 

[Olleus]

Maybe your boiler malfunctioned as you got close to frigate and you blew yourself up?

 

[pi-r8]

Why do I hear "the reef" story every time this happens? Folks... a battleship can fire volkswagon-sized shells over 20-miles accurately... why on God's green earth, if a Frigate went into treacherous waters would a battleship follow (and why does the frigate with only wind-power always make it through the reefs, when a much more controleable battleship doesn't?). If you'd like to cling to even the slightest bit of reality, a battleship would annihilate a frigate about 20-miles away from the reef.

I also don't tink two or three hundred guys with swords and muskets are going to overwhelm a ship of 1,500 men with rifles and automatic weapons... not that the guys in a frigate would even have much luck getting over the sides of the ship (and how did the frigate get within 20 miles of the battleship without being annihilated).

You might as well start justifying the club-weilding warrior defeating the modern tank... it's just as absurd.

If a motorboat can do that, just think what a frigate could do.

 

[mourndraken]

people died there on Cole. the destroyer did not sink.
Think about how many ships the British used and lost to sink the Bismark.

 

[mourndraken]

A high speed motor boat driven by suicidal people and packed with high explosives is more destructive than cannon balls.

 

[cFccFc]

Well, the frigate cant be mistaken for a little boat just unable to swing away and btw, the motorboat blow himself up, hence it died too. The frigate didn't.

However, I would love that when this happen an event should come up to honor the pre-era unit with for example giving every sea-based unit two more xp points or something like that just a bit weaker. Or give a smiley extra in every city to honor the "heroes" of the pre-era unit killing someone alot bigger.

 

[Evie]

Freak accidents are not entirely unheard of.

That's without considering the possibilities of a minefield ; god knows more than a few warships went down to minefields.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Wow... people will go to any length to justify the impossible.

Why do people embrace and justify stupidity instead of challenging it?

All I know that anybody who is going to justify a frigate sinking a battleship knows absolutely nothing of naval warfare.

 

[Evie]

Because, obviously, battleships being lost in freak accidents is clearly impossible.

Despite the fact that, you know, I just posted links to SEVEN SEPARATE INCIDENTS of battleship-esque heavy warships being lost in freak accidents.

I don't see what's "any length" in stating strange battle results is the game's way of simulating that sort of freak chance, since last I heard there wasn't a "Battleship explode in harbor" event. There isn't a "Battleship run into a minefield" event either ; where's the realism in mines-less naval warfare?

Warfare in civ is (quite obviously) abstracted ; a battle between a battleship and a frigate represent more than just "big-gun ships try to sink wood-hulled sailship" - it represent attempts to locate and engage that frigate (a square in CIV is on average muh more than 20 miles), then engaging that ship, then sinking it. At all point there is a chance the battleship may be lost - low, certainly, but not inexistent.

Until a mod implement battleships exploding in harbor and minefields (and frigates being lost in storms, they should never be guaranteed victory. (And, frankly, that would be too much nitpicky details - better to just have lower battle odds than to stack up events after events to increase realism).

 

[6K Man]

If you change the game so that a Battleship can't lose to a Frigate (or a Mech Inf can't lose to a Spearman... etc), then doesn't it follow that the stronger unit shouldn't earn any experience from a no-lose combat?

Personally, I don't mind the occasional oddball result - they keep me from taking victory for granted, which IMO would make the game boring.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

A freak storm came up and sank the battleship... an enemy frigate picked up the survivors

 

[Wolfshanze]

Wow... you guys are still trying to justify it... unbelievable.

Talk about living in la-la land.

 

[gettingfat]

The battleship captures the frigate and the crew became POW, but the captain escaped. He courageously sneaked into the room where the battleship kept their missiles and weapons and set a bomb there (on the way has killed 30 guys by bare hand). That guy smartly released his crew when it's a mess there, escaped back into their frigate and left, while the battleship sank behind...... sound like a Hollywood "Air Force One" style movie script, right?? It MIGHT happen !

 

[Evie]

Wow... you guys are still trying to justify it... unbelievable.

Talk about living in la-la land.

Perhaps if you actually adressed the justification instead of rolling your eyes, it would be a little bit more convincing.

Personally, as I stated before, there are SEVERAL factors - not otherwise accounted for in the game that can easily explain why a battleship would fail to destroy a frigate, and be destroyed itself.

Here are a list of battleships that were lost to mines, storms, accidents and the ilk :

Mines
(Russia) Navarin - struck a mine at Tsushima.
(Russia) Petrovavlovsk - Struck a mine early in the Russo-Japanesse war
(Russia) Peresviet - (Second sinking) Struck a mine in January 1917.
(Soviet Union) Novorossiysk - Probably struck an abandoned german mine in 1955
HMS Invincible - struck a mine in the Dardanelles.
HMS Ocean - struck a mine in the Dardanelles.
HMS Audacious - struck a mine in October 1914
HMS King Edward VII - Struck a mine in January 1916
HMS Russell - Struk a mine in April 1916
IJN Yashima - struck a mine early in the Russo-Japanesse war
IJN Hatsuse - struck a mine early in the Russo-Japanesse war.
(France) Bouvet - struck a mine in the Dardanelles.

Accidents
USS Maine - Exploded in Havana harbor, most likely an accident (despite contemporary accusations of sabotage) in 1898
HMS Victoria - rammed and sunk by HMS Camperdown in 1893.
HMS Montagu - Ran aground in May 1906
HMS Bulwark - Magazine explosion in 1914
HMS Vanguard - Magazine explosion in 1917
(Russia) Gangut - Hit an uncharted rock and sank in 1897
(Russia) Imperatritsa Mariya - Magazine explosion in October 1916
(France) France - Hit an uncharted rock and sank in 1922
(France) Liberté - Caught fire and exploded in 1911
(Spain) Espana - Ran aground off Morrocco in 1923
IJN Kawachi - Destroyed by an internal explosion in 1918.
IJN Mutsu - Exploded in harbor in 1943

Sabotaged
(Italy) Leonardo da Vinci - 1916
(Austria) SMS Viribus Unitis - sunk by Australian frogmen attaching mines in 1918.
And frankly, anyone who claim that combat in Civilization is NOT an abstraction of several factors (which include mechanical failures, mines, natural hazards, etc) is at least as delusional as you accuse us of being.