On a Third Unique

[moysturfurmer]

here are the facts:

• There's already precedent set for adding another set of uniques in an expansion (Civ4's Warlords & UBs)
• Lots of civs only have 2 UUs, limiting your play to war mongering (& the UUs aren't available for long, but you can build UBs and UIs throughout the game)
• There's no way in h*ck the devs are gonna release a new leader for each civ
• Ed Beach said they're not done releasing content for CiV

I'd say chances are adequate that we might see extra uniques for every civ someday. Maybe a little less than adequate but still.

Either way i figure we can discuss what a third unique would be for the current civs. If nothing else, this'll be a good way for me to learn a little more about world history.

America: Mall (Stadium? Replacement): all trading posts within the city limits confer an extra gold; more $$ = more tile purchases

Germany: Printer (Theatre replacement): increases culture and science output by x, higher upkeep than theatre; you're already saving all that money on army maintenance

France: Salon (Museum replacement): speeds up generation of Great Artists; in keeping with France's cultural (&tourist?) emphasis

Austria: Great Composer (Great Musician replacement): Great Works produced have increased yields; synergizes with their Coffee House UB

Japan: Tea Garden (Garden replacement): produces culture. cannot be made in occupied/annexed cities; these OP motherfl*ppers get an anti-synergy

Russia: Spetznaz (Paratrooper replacement): if it has 50 health, it'll fight as though it's at 75. If it has 20 health, it'll fight as though it's at 60. (think a half as effective bushido); can capture the cities that your DOUBLENUKES whittle down​

if i were a clever man I'd post more. what about you guys?

 

[CivCube]

Way too much rebalancing would need to happen to get that accomplished.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I would, but only under one condition

2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building or Improvement for each civ.

 

[SuperWaffle247]

I'd love to see another unique for each Civ. It would require balance considerations, but everything does. I especially would like late game stuff - a lot of people think that late-game assets are kinda useless but I disagree. I also think it's an opportunity to represent more history and add more flavor. I like your ideas, though I'd put Salon at Public School because that seems right to me. I always liked the idea of giving the Russians Katyusha Artillery, weaker than normal but with no deploy requirement.

 

[DudewiththeFood]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=491116

I believe this may be of use for your list.

I agree that some civs would be need a UB/UI instead and others might be tricky finding things for but I think that it would be a step forward.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Agreed with Oz up there. It sounds just the case to consider that everyone would have 2 UU and 1 UB. The problem is with ancient civilizations that would not have anything reasonable in the realocation.

I can imagine the roman forum (as in civ IV) or its archs of triumph, a brazilian bandeirante, a dutch merchantman (a trade unit), a french saloon, an english redcoat, etc.

But doesn`t seem to be easy to that to every civs.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I doubt this will happen anytime soon in Civ 5. I think maybe in Civ 6 they might consider it, but given the amount of rebalancing required (as well as time spent making the artwork and all) it won't happen in Civ5.

I think it'd be cool for Civ 6, though, to help make civs more unique and all that.

 

[labrynianrebel]

I would, but only under one condition

2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building or Improvement for each civ.

YES.

Anyways here's my list:

America: UI National Park (generates tourism and can only be built on a tile adjacent to to a natural wonder)

Arabia: UU Ikhwan (Since it's already an "Arab collaboration civ" a Saudi Arabian unit wouldn't be out of place)

Assyria: UU Heavy Chariot (4-horse chariot introduced by Ashurnasirpal II

Austria: UU Pandur (Slavonian Skirmishers)

Aztecs: UU Otomi (elite Aztec military order)

Babylon: UU Chaldean Chariot

Brazil: UU Para Monitor (type of ironclad)

Byzantium: UB Orthodox Church

Celts: UU Gallic Warrior

China: UU Huoqiang (very early firrearm)

Denmark: UI Runestone

Egypt: UU Nubian Mercenary

England: UB Landscape Garden

Ethiopia: UU Axumite Elephant (used in wars against the Himyarites)

France: UB Chateau

Germany: UB Rathaus

Greece: UB Gymnasium

The Huns: Gothic Warrior (Atilla did recruit Goths)

Inca: UU Macana Spearman

...there's a lot of civs, I'll finish later

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Huns need a Unique Building.. somehow.. you gave them a third Unique Unit.

 

[kaspergm]

2 UU's and 1 UB would be perfect for me. UI could substitute for either in special cases. So yes, I would love a third "unique" for all civs.

 

[steveg700]

Sure, I've often thought a third unique would go a long way towards rounding out a civ.

Now, I think this means two UU's for most civ's. This gives you multiple opptortunities to have something at different eras. And also, new UU's would contribute the least "power creep" to the existing civ's simply because they have a shelf life.

Just look at the Italy discussions. Geneoese crossbowmen? Condettieri? Berseglierri? Alpini? And that's not even considering UB's.

Heck, this might even provide an effective way to mere Rome with Italy in an amalgam civ.

 

[Guandao]

Huns need a Unique Building.. somehow.. you gave them a third Unique Unit.

Maybe the Huns could get a Ger/Yurt
They really didn't build much

 

[Leugi]

Inca: UU Macana Spearman

I'd rather have Chaskis, which could be either a trade unit or an explorer replacement...

Maybe the Huns could get a Ger/Yurt
They really didn't build much

Actually, I think the Gers are actually more Mongol than Hunnic... And they would be a nice replacement for pastures

Maybe the Huns could get a building that replaces the Courthouse that aside from removing the unhappiness also copies attributes of the unique building of the original civ...

 

[GenjiKhan]

One of the things I most hated in Civ4 was the existance of silly UBs,which felt way too forced to me . The main work for balancing,in most civs,can be done by just buffing their UA a bit,instead adding nonsense UBs .

 

[ahawk]

Several things:

1) Rather than introduce a new Unique for every single civ (which indeed, as CivCube said, would take extensive rebalancing and/or play-testing), I'd prefer to see the few relatively useless Uniques re-worked. In particular:
* the Zero (unless BNW improves air combat, the AI rarely fights for control of the skies via its own fighters)
* the Indian UA (it's not as bad as many imply, but it does hamper expanding enough that it's a very, very situational UA -- only if my first 3 cities all contain salt and wheat am I going to get enough of a bonus to offset the hampering effect of not being able to expand as early as normal)
* the Bowman (the Babylonian UU is actually still pretty good in vanilla, but in G&K it gets obsoleted very quickly)
* the Legion (unless BNW changes Iron and Iron-using units up, the Legion went from being dominating to under-powered, given that pikes in G&K now contend with them fairly easily).

2) Many unique buildings exist in the early game. That's where they are best to have, because their bonuses are then kept for much of the game. Hence, the early game, where it'd be best to add unique buildings, is already filled with them. Late game unique buildings are less popular, because the time it takes to tech that far usually means their bonuses won't be around for very long at all, and, beyond that, in the late game the turns spent building them might better be spent elsewhere. Thus, to me it seems that adding a third unique to everyone would generally result in a unit (or possibly an improvement), as there's really no good place to add too many more unique buildings. In the late game, they tend to underwhelm unless they are ridiculously powerful, and in the early game we already have a good number of UBs.

3) The UA's in CiV are far, far superior to Civ 4. I really don't see the civs needing anything other than a bit of reworking of a few uniques here and there. The UA's are generally powerful enough and unique enough that they provide much of what a civ really needs to have a certain playstyle or preferrence. In Civ 4, part of the reason uniques were added later on was that the UA's were just a handful of buffs that were often shared by 4 or 5 other civs (Industrious, Spiritual, etc.) while the single UU everyone had was not enough to give every civ something to worth for much longer than a single era or two. So adding more uniques to CiV is not necessary, whereas in Civ 4, it was a welcome addition for the most part.

4) There's enough else to work on that I doubt BNW will even cover it all. A small sample of what could be done (some of it already mentioned):
* re-work air-combat AI so it actually tries to use its fighters as fighters
* re-work Iron and Iron units so that swordsmen have a place in the game again
* improve military AI in general
* make sure the happiness hit for ideologies and tourism actually is useful at the higher levels
* decide on how to scale trade-route yields and possibilities for Duel and Tiny maps
* have the AI actually use the World Congress to stop runaways rather than do senseless stuff
And these are all major things that could use work or will take time to develop. Thus, if a third expansion were to come out, I doubt a third unique would be given to everyone. BNW is unlikely to fix enoug existing problems when it's trying to ensure the complicated things it adds or reworks that we already know about are done right.

 

[ferretbacon]

Not sure what it would be called, but I think the most appropriate third unique for the Huns would be a UI that can only be built on the ruins of a razed city. It would have to be fairly powerful and would also have to potentially work outside of Hunnic territory, but it would synergize well with the Hun playstyle.

Hm... perhaps it could be a special barbarian encampment - spawns barbarians in that area at double or triple rate. Not under your direct control, but will not attack your units. Additionally, there could be a counter that gives you +1 horse for each encampment currently up? I dunno, something like that.

As for the Babylonian Bowmen mentioned above my post, I think the best solution would be to either buff it beyond the capabilities of a Composite Bowman (while making it slightly more expensive to produce), or to merely make it replace the Composite Bowman.

 

[ScottMcPwn]

America - Mall or Sherman Tank
Aztecs - Puma or Tlaloc Canoe
Arabia - Ikhwan or Extremist (May cause offense)
China - Fire Lancer or Manchu Infantry
Egypt - Mamluk or Nile Spearmen
England (Needs to be renamed Great Britain) - Redcoat or Lancaster Bomber
France - Gendarme or Chataeu
Germany - Volksgrenadier or Prussian Infantry
Greece - Gymnasium or Athenean Marine
Japan - Dojo or Chi-Ha Tank
India - Sepoy or Siege Elephant (Cannon Elephant)
Turks/Ottomans - Great Bombard or Abus Gun
Mongols - Ger
Denmark - Longboat
Sweden - Sauna
Celts - Druids or War Chariot
Spain - Rodelero
?Portugal? - Jinete or Cassador
Russia - Shock Infantry or T80

 

[AriochIV]

More is better, in this case.

I would, but only under one condition

2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building or Improvement for each civ.

I think a lot of civs, especially the early/primitive ones, would be hard-pressed to find a second good UU choice.

And I said good choice... just because someone can blurt out a name doesn't make it a good choice.

 

[labrynianrebel]

Huns need a Unique Building.. somehow.. you gave them a third Unique Unit.

I couldn't think of anything

 

[God of Kings]

What about Mesoamerican Ballcourt for the Aztecs or the Mayans? The last time I checked, there have been no Colosseum replacements. The Mesoamerican Ballcourt can replace the Colosseum, but gives extra faith as well.

Brazil can have the Football Stadium, which replaces Stadium, but increases Tourism generation as well.

Austria can have a Concert Hall, which can replace Opera House, but has increased Great Music slots (and increased Great Musician generation) as well.

Egypt can have Mamelukes to replace Knights.

Carthage can have Numidian Cavalry to replace Horsemen.

Rome can have the Forum to replace Market.

Japan can have the Mecha Godzilla to replace Giant Death Robot (joke).

Greece can have Talos to replace Giant Death Robot (joke).

If Israel/the Hebrews are included, then they can have Golems to replace the "Squad" (joke).