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On communitas map

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by marco_atk85, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. marco_atk85

    marco_atk85 Chieftain

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    I like to play communitas map with old world continents option as I like the idea to find the new world and settle there is accurate the real world history.

    However, in contrast of real world history, I believe there is little incentive to settle to the new world in map. It would be great if there are some luxuries that are not available in old world like tomato or potato in real life.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Good luck with that.
    We haven't realized yet how to reduce resource spawning, which is excessive and the main reason Communitas is not more popular.

    Are you sure that using the Terra option there are no different luxuries in the new world? It sounds weird.

    By the way, I'd like to modify the script to fit the community tastes, if some consensus can be found, but I'm currently on a break, so unless anyone wishes to do that, it shall wait.
     
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  3. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    I don't think any resources are excessive in Communitas. They're just fine to me. In fact there's at least one type of strategic resource I completely lack in each game, which makes Pioneers and Colonists useful.
     
  4. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    It's not the amount of resources, but rather the number of tiles with resources is high. This makes it harder for civs with an unique improvement, since most of them cannot be placed over resources.
     
  5. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    I have not any complains to make about resources spawning. The only thing really noticeable in Communitas is the high amount of mountain tiles and rivers.
    Now, is it necessary to change it? I don't think so. If we look for balance always, it will make an other savorless map script (With not enough mountains and rivers)
    Instead, why not to create a new one based on Communitas like Planet Simulator does ? With what you believe to be the best.
     
  6. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I don't want to change the original map script, but rather provide one modified version explicitly tweaked to VP player tastes, whatever those happen to be, balanced in the sense that the likes of Incas, Shoshone and Portugal aren't punished by the lack of a terrain.
    I like Communitas best for the tactical shapes it creates.

    Then you might play any unbalanced map for fun.
     
    Erikose, Teholb and Asterix Rage like this.
  7. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    I will :)
     
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  8. marco_atk85

    marco_atk85 Chieftain

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    I thought communitas map is recommended for the mod :confused:

    Yes I am using terra option. I attached 2 screenshot from my current save. There are only fish, sheep and stone mostly. Truffles and silk are also available in old world. So yeah, I find very little reason to settle those new lands.

    Anyway, if it can't be doable, nothing else to discuss.

    Which map do you recommend then, if not the communitas is no more popular?
     
  9. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Continents or Pangaea. The most testing occurs on these maps.
     
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  10. DarkZero

    DarkZero Warlord

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    I remember a couple of years ago a very good discussion on this forum about the communitas map, whit side by side screenshot comparisons and a overall tally on the number of resource tiles, the verdict is that maps are way bigger than default ones and thus they have something crasy like twice or 3 times as many resources tiles, I still remember a game I had where my capital had 7! fishes and a couple of crabs, but i also remember the map is better if you manually add a couple more civs on top of the default ones for a standard size, I personally like to play on fractal because it generates a very unique map every single game.
     
  11. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    I changed the map to continents size, reduced mountains and increased jungles. Go find Communitas4.lua somewhere in this forum.
    It's ruining triangles at the same time, so fair for every civ. Most UI can't be placed next to each other anyway.
     
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  12. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Ok, I've been digging around the code and I realise why there are no luxuries in the new world. Or at least no new luxuries.

    Luxuries are distributed around each player first, and then a few more luxuries nearby but not too close. This method ensures that every player has a luxury monopoly at his reach, but sadly, makes the unsettled continent empty of luxuries. But this is not exclusive to Communitas, as the way the luxuries are handled is calling an external method:
    Code:
        print("Map Generation - Placing Luxuries");
        self:PlaceLuxuries()
    Good news is that I've also found how Communitas distributes strategics and resources.
    First, this couple of functions say how many strategic resources there are in each resouce tile.
    Code:
    function AssignStartingPlots:GetMajorStrategicResourceQuantityValues()
        -- This function determines quantity per tile for each strategic resource's major deposit size.
        -- Note: scripts that cannot place Oil in the sea need to increase amounts on land to compensate.
        local uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = 4, 4, 7, 6, 7, 8;
        -- Check the resource setting.
        if self.resource_setting == 1 then -- Sparse
            uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = 2, 4, 5, 4, 5, 5;
        elseif self.resource_setting == 3 then -- Abundant
            uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = 4, 6, 9, 9, 10, 10;
        end
        return uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt
    end
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    function AssignStartingPlots:GetSmallStrategicResourceQuantityValues()
        -- This function determines quantity per tile for each strategic resource's small deposit size.
        local uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3;
        -- Check the resource setting.
        if self.resource_setting == 1 then -- Sparse
            uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2;
        elseif self.resource_setting == 3 then -- Abundant
            uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3;
        end
        return uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt
    end
    Here's why horses are always 4 (major) or 2 (minor) in standard resources distribution, and coal is 6 (major) or 2 (minor). We can tweak this safely.

    Then, this one places strategic resources tiles all over the map.
    Code:
    function AssignStartingPlots:PlaceStrategicAndBonusResources()
        print("PlaceStrategicAndBonusResources")
        -- KEY: {Resource ID, Quantity (0 = unquantified), weighting, minimum radius, maximum radius}
        -- KEY: (frequency (1 per n plots in the list), impact list number, plot list, resource data)
        --
        -- The radius creates a zone around the plot that other resources of that
        -- type will avoid if possible. See ProcessResourceList for impact numbers.
        --
        -- Order of placement matters, so changing the order may affect a later dependency.
        
        -- Adjust amounts, if applicable, based on Resource Setting.
        local uran_amt, horse_amt, oil_amt, iron_amt, coal_amt, alum_amt = self:GetMajorStrategicResourceQuantityValues()
        local resources_to_place = {}
    
        -- Adjust appearance rate per Resource Setting chosen by user.
        local resMultiplier = 1;
        if self.resource_setting == 1 then -- Sparse, so increase the number of tiles per bonus.
            resMultiplier = 1.5;
        elseif self.resource_setting == 3 then -- Abundant, so reduce the number of tiles per bonus.
            resMultiplier = 0.66666667;
        end
        
        print("self.resource_setting = " .. self.resource_setting)
        
        -- Place Strategic resources.
        do
        print("Map Generation - Placing Strategics");
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 10, 0, 2}, --26
        {self.coal_ID, coal_amt, 80, 1, 3}, -- 39
        {self.aluminum_ID, alum_amt, 10, 2, 3} }; -- 35
        self:ProcessResourceList(15, 1, self.hills_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 22
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.coal_ID, coal_amt, 50, 1, 2}, -- 30
        {self.uranium_ID, uran_amt, 50, 1, 2} }; --70
        self:ProcessResourceList(20, 1, self.jungle_flat_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 33
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.coal_ID, coal_amt, 80, 1, 2}, --70
        {self.uranium_ID, uran_amt, 20, 1, 1},  --30
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 100, 0, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(30, 1, self.forest_flat_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 39   
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.oil_ID, oil_amt, 65, 1, 1},
        {self.uranium_ID, uran_amt, 35, 0, 1} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(30, 1, self.jungle_flat_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 9
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.oil_ID, oil_amt, 45, 1, 2},
        {self.aluminum_ID, alum_amt, 45, 1, 2},
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 10, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(16, 1, self.tundra_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 16
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.oil_ID, oil_amt, 20, 1, 1},
        {self.aluminum_ID, alum_amt, 20, 2, 3},
        {self.uranium_ID, alum_amt, 20, 2, 3},
        {self.coal_ID, alum_amt, 20, 2, 3},
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 20, 2, 3} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(5, 1, self.snow_flat_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 17
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.oil_ID, oil_amt, 80, 0, 1},
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 20, 1, 1} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(10, 1, self.desert_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 13
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 100, 0, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(10, 1, self.hills_jungle_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 99
        
    --    resources_to_place = {
    --    {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 100, 0, 2} };
    --    self:ProcessResourceList(5, 1, self.marsh_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 99
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.horse_ID, horse_amt, 100, 2, 5} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(33, 1, self.grass_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 33
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.horse_ID, horse_amt, 100, 1, 4} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(33, 1, self.plains_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 33
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.horse_ID, horse_amt, 100, 1, 4} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(10, 1, self.flood_plains_list, resources_to_place)
        end
    Code:
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 10, 0, 2}, --26
        {self.coal_ID, coal_amt, 80, 1, 3}, -- 39
        {self.aluminum_ID, alum_amt, 10, 2, 3} }; -- 35
        self:ProcessResourceList(15, 1, self.hills_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 22
    It's a bit hard to understand. Take the first terrain where strategics are distributed:
    This creates a table called resources_to_place with the values of iron_ID coal_ID and aluminium:ID (the resource type), iron_amt (the number of strategic this tile will have), the chance of this resource being called (coal has a 80% of being called when placing a strategic resource on a hill), then the minimum and the maximum distance where the next strategic can be placed. Theorically, an iron tile on a hill can be created just next to another iron tile on a hill, but there cannot be 2 aluminiums closer than 2 tiles in hills.
    Then it places 1 stance of the above resources every 15 hill tiles with impact number 1 (I don't know what 'impact' is intended to do, but bonus resources have an impact of 3). 15 is the frequency at which strategic resources appear on hills and it is not affected by Resource Setting chose by player, it currently only affects the amount of resources that can be found on major and minor resource tiles. So, even if we choose sparse resources, the number of tiles with strategic resources is not going to change, only the amount they provide. It doesn't even depend on the number of players.
    Note that marshes are not granted any resource.

    This last part just add some extra strategics if, due to terrain distribution, the minimum quantity of resources is not achieved.
    Code:
        -- Check for low or missing Strategic resources
        do
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.iron_ID + 1] < 8 then
            --print("Map has very low iron, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.hills_list, resources_to_place) -- 99999 means one per that many tiles: a single instance.
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.iron_ID + 1] < 4 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low iron, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.iron_ID, iron_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.land_list, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.horse_ID + 1] < 4 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low horse, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.horse_ID, horse_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.plains_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.horse_ID + 1] < 4 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low horse, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.horse_ID, horse_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.dry_grass_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.coal_ID + 1] < 8 then
            --print("Map has very low coal, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.coal_ID, coal_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.hills_list, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.coal_ID + 1] < 4 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low coal, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.coal_ID, coal_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.land_list, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.oil_ID + 1] < 4 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low oil, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.oil_ID, oil_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.land_list, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.aluminum_ID + 1] < 4 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low aluminum, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.aluminum_ID, alum_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.hills_list, resources_to_place)
        end
        if self.amounts_of_resources_placed[self.uranium_ID + 1] < 2 * self.iNumCivs then
            --print("Map has very low uranium, adding another.");
            local resources_to_place = { {self.uranium_ID, uran_amt, 100, 0, 0} };
            self:ProcessResourceList(99999, 1, self.land_list, resources_to_place)
        end
    In layman: If the amount of horse tiles is lower than 4 times the number of players, then add another horse in any plains tile. If it still is lower, then add another horse in a grass tile.
    Here is a posible bug. All extra resources are relative to number of players, except iron and coal on hills, that must be at least 8 tiles.

    Then comes the food resources, here called 'bonus resources'. I'll start with fish, since it's the one I just don't understand. There's a piece saying where fishes can be placed, and then there's this sentence:
    Code:
        self:PlaceFish(10 * resMultiplier, self.coast_list);
    I think this means "place a fish tile every 10 able tiles". So, if we wanted more fishes, we just have to lower this 10 to whatever we like.

    Other resources come later:
    Code:
    function AssignStartingPlots:PlaceBonusResources()
        local resMultiplier = 1;
        if self.resource_setting == 1 then -- Sparse, so increase the number of tiles per bonus.
            resMultiplier = 1.5;
        elseif self.resource_setting == 3 then -- Abundant, so reduce the number of tiles per bonus.
            resMultiplier = 0.66666667;
        end
        
        -- Place Bonus Resources
        print("Map Generation - Placing Bonuses");
        self:PlaceFish(10 * resMultiplier, self.coast_list);
        self:PlaceSexyBonusAtCivStarts()
        self:AddExtraBonusesToHillsRegions()
        local resources_to_place = {}
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.deer_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(6 * resMultiplier, 3, self.extra_deer_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 8
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.deer_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(8 * resMultiplier, 3, self.tundra_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 12
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.wheat_ID, 1, 100, 0, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(10 * resMultiplier, 3, self.desert_wheat_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 10
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.wheat_ID, 1, 100, 2, 3} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(10 * resMultiplier, 3, self.plains_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 27
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.banana_ID, 1, 100, 0, 3} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(14 * resMultiplier, 3, self.banana_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 14
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.cow_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(18 * resMultiplier, 3, self.grass_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 18
        
    -- CBP
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.bison_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(15 * resMultiplier, 3, self.plains_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
    -- END
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.sheep_ID, 1, 100, 1, 1} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(8 * resMultiplier, 3, self.hills_open_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 13
    
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.stone_ID, 1, 100, 1, 1} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(10 * resMultiplier, 3, self.grass_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 20
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.stone_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(15 * resMultiplier, 3, self.tundra_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 15
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.stone_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(5 * resMultiplier, 3, self.desert_flat_no_feature, resources_to_place)
        -- 19
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.stone_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(50 * resMultiplier, 3, self.marsh_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 99
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.stone_ID, 1, 100, 1, 2} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(8 * resMultiplier, 3, self.snow_flat_list, resources_to_place)
        -- 99
        
        resources_to_place = {
        {self.deer_ID, 1, 100, 3, 4} };
        self:ProcessResourceList(25 * resMultiplier, 3, self.forest_flat_that_are_not_tundra, resources_to_place)
    end
    This is very similar to how strategic resources are handled, with the exception that now, instead of a fixed frequency, the number of tiles with bonus resources depends on the Resource Setting chosen by player. You can see that wheat is added every 10 desert tiles and can be place next to another one, and another wheat is added every 10 plain tiles, but there cannot be another wheat closer than 2 tiles. There are no wheat in grass!

    Before these bonus resources are distributed over the map, some resources are specifically given to starting locations and city states with the function PlaceSexyBonusAtCivStarts(), and some other to hills with AddExtraBonusesToHillsRegions(). Very explanatory function names. But since these functions work well, we could leave them alone.


    *****

    Ok, then. Things that we can tweak with Communitas resources, VP version.
    1. Change the number of strategic tiles to be dependent on sparseness, not just the amount they provide.
    2. Add or remove bonus and strategic resources to terrain types. (Why are there no wheat on grass?)
    3. Increase or reduce the amount of every type of resource, including fishes. (Anyone wishes more stones in desert?)
    4. Fix the minimum generation of iron and oil to be dependent on number of players, like the other resources (seems a bug to me).
     
    Dimmy, Erikose, Kim Dong Un and 11 others like this.
  13. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    It still adds a tile of iron/coal if the amount of iron/coal tiles is lower than 4 times number of civs. Just not specifically on hills.

    Wheat not being on grass is vanilla feature. Do we really want more food on grassland?
     
  14. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    In the code says that it adds coal and iron if it is lower than 8. They are the only strategics not linked to the number of players.
    And I think I know why it was changed. Islands are so buffed that they spawn occasionally coal and iron. So the amount of coal and iron is already massive.

    You're right about wheat. I'm reverting to what civilopedia says: flood plains and flat plains. Also changed bison to meet civilopedia description.

    One thing I notice while watching the maps is that the last author modified the map script to make it look like Earth in our age. There's almost no jungle and very little forests. I'm borrowing settings from planet simulator, which is much more balanced play wise. Still working on it, since there's now too much snow for my tastes.

    I'm also reducing the frequency of bonus resources, leaving some room for farm clusters and villages. Right now, deserts look a bit empty, I'm planning on increasing the resources there, where no triangles can be affected.

    Edit. There are a couple of things that I'm finding hard to right. I can't find a proper scatterness with nice looking shapes. It's either too blocky or too scattered. I don't mind some wild forms (that's more interesting to play than tectonics), but it's making it hard to form a real ocean rift.
    Also, I don't know still why, there's a canal between any continent and the ice. If it were to happen occasionally that would be an interesting feature, but it happens always.

    Does anyone knows a faster way to update maps? Currently I'm loading Ingame Editor mod along VP, and creating a new modded game to see the map script with all the resources, but every time I modify the script I have to reload the mods (that's going to the main menu again, load mods, create single game).
    Also, is there a way I can show you the whole unrevealed map? IGE only let me use a third of the screen to view the revealed map. (Guess I could use IGE to remove fog permanently, but it works tile by tile).
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  15. K_away_0514

    K_away_0514 Chieftain

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    Maybe a modpack would help?
    Saw someone use IGE to get Satellites which reveals the whole map.
     
  16. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Update.

    Resource distribution was easy to fix. Shapes are not ideal yet, but it is playable. But I'm struggling with terrain and features. There are two variables to set:
    Temperature and humidity.
    For both terrain types (desert, grass, tundra, snow) and feature types (forest, jungle, marsh).
    But documentation is pretty obscure and I still can't find good values to create a balanced distribution. RL tasks don't help either.
     
    Erikose, vyyt and Teholb like this.
  17. Teholb

    Teholb Warlord

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    I increased the land area, decreased the amount of mountains and rivers, and biased iron and coal toward more "minor" deposits and less "major" in an effort to balance distribution or at least make it less lopsided for my MP games.

    What you're describing seems vastly more in-depth, and it took me quite a while to figure out the tiny bits that I did. I'm excited to try out your version, once you've got it working. It sounds amazing, thanks for taking the time and posting updates!
     
  18. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Malaga (Spain)
    Ok, now I'm stuck with a very weird bug that puts forests on desert tiles...
    Other than that, it's looking good.
     
  19. Cobra522

    Cobra522 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Im very excited to see what comes of this! I always liked the communitas maps but they seemed so unbalanced
     
  20. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    6,590
    Location:
    Malaga (Spain)
    Changelog version 1.0:

    Fixed wheat and forest on deserts.
    Fixed low forest and null jungles. Now terrain types are balanced.
    Fixed resources to spawn where civilopedia says.
    Reduced the overall frequency of resources, so there's more room for farms and villages.
    Reduced the frequency of strategic tiles, but give them higher quantities, so it's more strategic.
    Also reduced land iron and coal, since they come as a bonus in islands.
    Aluminum more frequent in cold climate, Uranium more frequent in jungles, Oil in desert.
    Increased frequency for stones in deserts and tundras.
    Increased frequency for bison and fish.
    Added resources to snow.
    Two wide ocean rifts with irregular shapes, for better replayability.
    Reduced number of islands.

    Take a look and make suggestions!
    Enjoy!
     

    Attached Files:

    Erikose, Teholb, vyyt and 2 others like this.

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