Leha
ooseepoosee
All said doesn't excuse pretty lame attempts of french authorities to reduce number of such "cases" of anti-semitism , and cases themselves .
On Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir's Oration
- Thread starter IceBlaZe
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All said doesn't excuse pretty lame attempts of french authorities to reduce number of such "cases" of anti-semitism , and cases themselves .
Kinniken
Riding with William
Last year, when anti-semetic attacks were on the rise, the Minister in charge of police ordered all Jewish buildings (Synagoges and Jewish schools, mainly) garded by police.
I can assure you that few violent acts in France have caused such extensive police deployments. I've never heard of the police protecting all Mosques in France after attacks on Arabs, who happen at least as often.
Leha
ooseepoosee
Originally posted by Hitro
What a funny thread...
But people should also see that condemning the Malaysian PM's speeches is not the only and also not the most important task of Europe's leaders. It doesn't have to be said at every occasion and be included in every declaration (no matter the topic), especially as obvious as it is...
I don't think 6 million dead jews was a funny thing ( excuse me fo repeating this for millionth time , this thought just don't leave my head , don't know why ) , and everything started from such speaches , and the world didn't care .
I think ( my point of view ) that such things have higher priority for condemnation than Hedge , desined to defend Israeli sitizen , even if I agree ( supposedly ) that Hedge is not a good thing .
Leha
ooseepoosee
Apparently those policemen need better school or better eyes , because (strange) I hear more and more about acts of vandalism against jews in France last year . Believe me , I have nothing against France and it's people . I visited there , country is beautifull , I like french movies and Edith Piaf . BUT . Sadly , I see , let's say , general french attitude towards Israelis is negative .
And I understand at least why attitude of the government of France is negative - because France has much deeper contacts , political and economical interests in arab countries , and it cannot be changed .
I wish French government would behave as gentlemen at least .
Edit : OOps , sorry , not Hedge , Fence
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
Wow. A true contestant post for "worst Holocaust reference ever" as well as the "missing the point" award.
The thread is funny, not the Holocaust, nor the content of the speech, nor the vb Code that produced it, nor number of posts prior to mine.
And why the hell do you even mention that fence project in this context? Nobody talked about it, at least not me.
I'm just of the humble opinion that a EU meeting should serve more purposes than only condemning a speech by a foreign PM in every possible verbal and written form. The EU President condemned it, and rightfully so, but that should be it and there's no need for attacking Chirac over it. Look into the proceedings of such meetings before you dismiss people based on newspaper reports that are obviously either extremely biased or outright stupid.
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
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Now when the hell did Hitro ever say that the Holocaust was a 'funny' thing. What he said was that this thread is funny.
Listen the Nazi scumbags were defeated, destroyed, annihilated, put to trial, executed, ridiculed and what have you. There is absolutely no sane European who have any kind of sympathy for the Nazis. the Nazis will never rise again. the EU has in fact made it very clear that if any Nazi will ever rise to political influence in any country that country will be banished until that person is dealt with. There is no government conspiracy. There is no police cover up, there is no state organized anti-semitic campaigning.
Of course there are hate crimes in Europe. of course Jews are occasionally attacked. However so are Muslims, Blacks, Hindis, and any other minority for that matter. The Holocaust was a single event which is incomparebale to any other genocide. the attacks today, however, is not something which happens exclusively to Jews.
Listen the Nazi scumbags were defeated, destroyed, annihilated, put to trial, executed, ridiculed and what have you. There is absolutely no sane European who have any kind of sympathy for the Nazis. the Nazis will never rise again. the EU has in fact made it very clear that if any Nazi will ever rise to political influence in any country that country will be banished until that person is dealt with. There is no government conspiracy. There is no police cover up, there is no state organized anti-semitic campaigning.
Of course there are hate crimes in Europe. of course Jews are occasionally attacked. However so are Muslims, Blacks, Hindis, and any other minority for that matter. The Holocaust was a single event which is incomparebale to any other genocide. the attacks today, however, is not something which happens exclusively to Jews.
Leha
ooseepoosee
Originally posted by Hitro
Wow. A true contestant post for "worst Holocaust reference ever" as well as the "missing the point" award.
The thread is funny, not the Holocaust, nor the content of the speech, nor the vb Code that produced it, nor number of posts prior to mine.
And why the hell do you even mention that fence project in this context? Nobody talked about it, at least not me.
I'm just of the humble opinion that a EU meeting should serve more purposes than only condemning a speech by a foreign PM in every possible verbal and written form. The EU President condemned it, and rightfully so, but that should be it and there's no need for attacking Chirac over it. Look into the proceedings of such meetings before you dismiss people based on newspaper reports that are obviously either extremely biased or outright stupid.
This thread is about anti-semit ... well , prime-minister ( I won't offend XIII , he is respecting him ) . I don't think this is funny . Simple, right ?
While you do think this thread is funny , well , I tried to bring differences between us and reminded you that last time that was funny , 6.000.000 people were killed , that's all . You may dismiss all this thing , your right .
And why did I mentioned Fence ? Who is trying to condemn it all the time ?
Leha
ooseepoosee
All I'm trying to say , all bad things start when the ROOT of evil is left alone . I'm not talking of jews only . I'm talking of armenians , kurds etc . When we start tolerate such speaches , we are commiting crime , because "if you tolerate this , then your children will be next"
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
And noone disagreed with that, including Jacques Chirac, that is the point.
Though I am against this method, since it is fundamentally wrong, point-by-point it is, Sean.
You wouldn't care, but the obvious case is that the Malay PM tries to convince the muslim community that Jews rule the world by proxy.
You don't care? Fine, many do not, but that's not the case. He does.
Nonsense. Who dies on Israel's behalf?
Who fought for Israel's independence? Who fought the Six Day War? Who fought Yom Kippur? Who fights Palestinian terrorism?
I have yet to see ONE case when someone dies on Israel's behalf.
The opposite is true - so far even UN forces in Southern Lebanon do not even TICKLE the Hizbullah which keeps targeting civilians.
The policy of the United States in the ME has taken a somewhat extreme turn since Bush's election, but I still do not see the US fighting ANY of Israel's wars. ANY.
Actually, During "Mivza Kadesh" (1956) Israel fought for France and Britain only to gain their support, which eventually failed because the US put their foot down. But I guess your memory is selective.
Oh, now it makes sense. Israel rules the world by proxy.
I don't know if you are naive or you have some prejudice.
First of all, I was cynical.
Second of all, you seem to think he only "Points out" facts, when actually this entire part of the rhetoric is clearly aimed to "clarify" Jews have and always had a master plan to:
1) Secure their position ontop of everyone else.
2) Rule the world
His speech does get to an absurd, anti-semitic, level. I think you are the only person on this forum who does not see that.
Maybe he has his "reasons" to say what he says, maybe his intentions are good, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In this world the test is a test of result, not of intent.
It is a test of facts, not of theories. Let's, for example, say guy A, in his head, pictures raping little girls, but in reality, he is an examplary volunteer in a kinder garden. OTOH, there is this other person, who only thinks how to nurture the infants, but ends up murdering one because he mistreated the other. Who will be judged? Who will get jailed?
The Malay PM might have good intentions, might think highly of the Jews, might respect them, might wish to unite Islam for technology and development. MIGHT. In reality, he promotes a torn between Judaism and Islam, he promotes a war of religion and he promotes anti-Semitism to be widespread. He promotes old anti-semitic tales about Jews and helps those tales to spread as a valid opinion of Jews in the entire Islam community. Just like the first guy is a volunteer and the other guy is a murderer, the Malay PM is an anti-semite and openly advocates that type of thinking.
Contrary to that, you are the "clever" one here, trying to reason out a simple anti-semitic rhetoric.
Point by point? He said "Most powerful countries".
First of all, it is a plural, and by context, he surely means the US, Britain etc, and not Israel.
It is obvious Jews control Israel. Jews ARE the overwhelming majority of the Israeli population.
You wouldn't care, but the obvious case is that the Malay PM tries to convince the muslim community that Jews rule the world by proxy.
You don't care? Fine, many do not, but that's not the case. He does.
Nonsense. Who dies on Israel's behalf?
Who fought for Israel's independence? Who fought the Six Day War? Who fought Yom Kippur? Who fights Palestinian terrorism?
I have yet to see ONE case when someone dies on Israel's behalf.
The opposite is true - so far even UN forces in Southern Lebanon do not even TICKLE the Hizbullah which keeps targeting civilians.
The policy of the United States in the ME has taken a somewhat extreme turn since Bush's election, but I still do not see the US fighting ANY of Israel's wars. ANY.
Actually, During "Mivza Kadesh" (1956) Israel fought for France and Britain only to gain their support, which eventually failed because the US put their foot down. But I guess your memory is selective.
Oh, now it makes sense. Israel rules the world by proxy.
I don't know if you are naive or you have some prejudice.
First of all, I was cynical.
Second of all, you seem to think he only "Points out" facts, when actually this entire part of the rhetoric is clearly aimed to "clarify" Jews have and always had a master plan to:
1) Secure their position ontop of everyone else.
2) Rule the world
His speech does get to an absurd, anti-semitic, level. I think you are the only person on this forum who does not see that.
Maybe he has his "reasons" to say what he says, maybe his intentions are good, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In this world the test is a test of result, not of intent.
It is a test of facts, not of theories. Let's, for example, say guy A, in his head, pictures raping little girls, but in reality, he is an examplary volunteer in a kinder garden. OTOH, there is this other person, who only thinks how to nurture the infants, but ends up murdering one because he mistreated the other. Who will be judged? Who will get jailed?
The Malay PM might have good intentions, might think highly of the Jews, might respect them, might wish to unite Islam for technology and development. MIGHT. In reality, he promotes a torn between Judaism and Islam, he promotes a war of religion and he promotes anti-Semitism to be widespread. He promotes old anti-semitic tales about Jews and helps those tales to spread as a valid opinion of Jews in the entire Islam community. Just like the first guy is a volunteer and the other guy is a murderer, the Malay PM is an anti-semite and openly advocates that type of thinking.
Contrary to that, you are the "clever" one here, trying to reason out a simple anti-semitic rhetoric.
Point by point? He said "Most powerful countries".
First of all, it is a plural, and by context, he surely means the US, Britain etc, and not Israel.
It is obvious Jews control Israel. Jews ARE the overwhelming majority of the Israeli population.
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
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What the bloddy hell are you on about here. The fact is that Israel has the most close economic relation with France and the EU. Benyamin Netanyahu has said that it should be the policy of Israel to gain acces to EU membership. Israel is in the Eurovison song contest. Israel is in the European football championship.
No Muslim country has that close relations with Europe, economically and culturally, except turkey, an ally of Israel.
I mean even some right wing Jewish author (I forget his name) has stated that israel is the cultural and political guardian of Europe in the Middle east. Never mind that it sound like fascist garbage in my ears, but the fact is that he said it.
Leha
ooseepoosee
Then why the heck , tell me why , not to condemn this at higher level ? Is it so hard ? Is it not serious enough issue ?
Is it not worth effort to show the whole world Europe will not tolerate all kinds of racism ?
Nad
Known Troublemaker
He has condemned it, dipstick
.So now there is a change in tune. The thread title is "racist oration welcomed by Chirac". But now you agree that it was NOT welcomed? Do tell me, then, what was the purpose of the title if not to bash the French?
Moderator Action: flaming, 5 days, (here and #184 below)
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Leha
ooseepoosee
Are you kidding ? C'mon , how can you compare Eurovision to OIL ?
Are you serious ?
Leha
ooseepoosee
Originally posted by Nad
He has condemned it, dipstick
So now there is a change in tune. The thread title is "racist oration welcomed by Chirac". But now you agree that it was NOT welcomed? Do tell me, then, what was the purpose of the title if not to bash the French?
Arafat condemns terrorist acts , too , yo-yo .
But Arafat would never agree to condemn them at UN , see difference , boy ?
Moderator Action: counterflaming, 3 days
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Aimed for Hitro:
Berlusconi's condemnation was an alternative, not an addition.
Putting the serious condemnation in the conclusion would only take a page or two out of more than a dozen. And it IS a serious enough issue. First of all, it WAS discussed in the meeting, and it WAS condemned in the meeting, so there was place to include the condemnation in the end-of-meeting conclusion.
Second of all, the EU is an economic body with obvious ties to other large countries, including Malaysia. So, if the Malaysian PM decides to go anti - it is Europe's business. At least I hope it is.
Berlusconi's condemnation was an alternative, not an addition.
Putting the serious condemnation in the conclusion would only take a page or two out of more than a dozen. And it IS a serious enough issue. First of all, it WAS discussed in the meeting, and it WAS condemned in the meeting, so there was place to include the condemnation in the end-of-meeting conclusion.
Second of all, the EU is an economic body with obvious ties to other large countries, including Malaysia. So, if the Malaysian PM decides to go anti - it is Europe's business. At least I hope it is.
Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
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I was talking about close economic and cutural ties. Together these create the foundation for what is possible in the political sphere. No I cant' compare oil with the Eurovison, nor am I.
In fact Israel should probably be thankful for not having any natural resources to speak of. The whole oil thing has been a curse upon the Arabs. Think about it. We here in the west is hooked on the damn thing, and we can't get enough of it. So we send our soldiers once in while to whack them over their heads when they won't share it. If Israel sat on half the oil-reserves in the world do you think any American president or European for that matter would give a hoot about how Israel felt the oil-price should be? they would have to shake up and do what they were being told.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
But, please read Kinneken's posts again, there is a reason for why Chirac (and others) were against including a condemnation in the conclusion, and that reason is not that they don't want to condemn it.
While you may disagree with that view, which may have a point or not, there is absolutely no justification for saying that Chirac "welcomed" the racist remarks by the Malaysian PM. That is plain and simply wrong. All of them condemned it, nobody did not condemn it, not to think of praising it.
And though I, unlike others, don't think that your only agenda is to bash Europe I can see that the thread title can be interpreted as such for that reason.
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