• 📚 A new project from the admin: Check out PictureBooks.io, an AI storyteller that lets you build custom picture books for kids in seconds. Let me know what you think here!

On Term Limits

Cheezy the Wiz

Socialist In A Hurry
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Messages
25,238
Location
Freedonia
What are your thoughts on them? Should they be for some political offices and not others? For all? Or for none? Please explain your logic. Unless you're VAgent, in which case you can tell me what IDIC means :P

I think we should have a single-term limit on all elected political offices, meaning congressmen, presidents (or prime ministers, premiers, dear leaders, der fuerhers, et al), city council members, mayors, and whatever local government positions there may be. This obviously excludes judges and sheriffs, because they are obviously different from the rest of that list. If you don't understand why, ask, and I'll explain my reasoning; I feel to go into in the OP would be to digress and pontificate unnecessarily.

My primary reason for coming to this conclusion is that, with the possibility of re-election, politicians, who are supposed to be the representatives of their constituency, become worried about their own political careers and their own re-election. The purpose of a representative democracy is to simplify direct democracy, since we obviously can't all be there to vote and decide on every little thing. That is why representatives are chosen to speak on behalf of the people who elected them, and if they are worried about their own re-election, then they aren't doing what is best for the people and for the nation.

A classic example of this, and what initially sparked this thought, is pork barrel spending. Though there may be myriad explanations given as to the purpose of such programs, what it comes down to is that a representative wants to be re-elected, and wants to get things for his district to show that he's "done something" and is worthy of keeping in office. If a politician doesn't have to worry about re-election, they aren't likely to add on unnecessary programs or items to bills for their own benefit. This goes hand-in-hand with the elimination of programs.

A strong criticism of congress is that they won't ever cut any programs, because it means less money going to their district, so the budget problems we have are plagued by an inability to remove any of the things that cost money. But why are politicians so unwilling to remove even the most useless of programs? Because their constituency finds out about it, and they have to defend it in the next election, and who is going to vote for someone who cuts programs in their home district?

If representatives can't be re-elected, then more people become involved in the political process by necessity. Campaigns should become more honest, as candidates have to argue purely about the issues and what they will do, though I admit the possibility of mudslinging to remain is by no means impossible.

This also makes elections more fair, as all the candidates begin on roughly the same financial level. Presently, the incumbent enjoys a huge advantage in fund-raising and advertisement, to say nothing of name-recognition. People will actually have to pay attention to what the candidates are supporting and proposing.

As with all people beginning new jobs, there's a certain eagerness that we see in politicians in their first few years, a real, honest desire to do their job right and with enthusiasm. This fades as the years go on, but without the possibility of re-election, there can be no "career politicians" who go through the motions. A cadre of enthusiastic public servants should emerge, ready to do their job, and well, with the time they're given. In addition, candidates have no lame duck period, because no one "holding out" to negotiate with the next group of elected representatives, because they won't be there to!

And finally, there's no need to have a re-election campaign. Think of all the money that would be saved, all the headaches gone.

So to recap, the advantages are:

1. Helps eliminate pork barrel spending.

2. Helps with the liquidation of programs, creating a more healthy budget.

3. More of the population becomes involved in the political process.

4. Elections are more fair, as there is no incumbent fund raising advantages, and all candidates must be evaluated each time.

5. Representatives cannot "settle into" their job, and with serve enthusiastically and more honestly.

6. No re-election campaigns, no lame duck periods.

There are disadvantages too, however. I will outline the ones I see quickly.

1. Candidates are always "green," that is, they are not as acquainted with "how things are done" in the system. I admit there is possibility for this to be assuaged either by education or by simplification of the system. But this bullet may also be counted in the "good" section, depending on how you look at it.

2. It could backfire and create a huge lame duck period, since no one can ever be re-elected.

3. Term limits would probably have to be lengthened, since everyone only gets one shot at it. This isn't necessarily a downside, merely what I think would be a requirement.

4. The lack of name recognition, as well as the new amounts of research into the candidates that would be required, could also backfire and make people even more disinterested in the system then they are now.

Now, discus!

diskob5.jpg
 
IDIC = Infinite Diversity, Infinite Combinations.

The argument against term limits for Congress is simple: A member of Congress cannot master the federal government in 8 -12 years.
 
Indeed. There are too many ins and outs for a single two or four year term to be effective in office.

I'm not saying hire them for life, but there is a happy medium somewhere that would allow people time to serve and serve effectively, and still bring in fresh ideas frequently.
 
Indeed. There are too many ins and outs for a single two or four year term to be effective in office.

I'm not saying hire them for life, but there is a happy medium somewhere that would allow people time to serve and serve effectively, and still bring in fresh ideas frequently.

Well what if term limits were lengthened to compensate? To, for example, 6, 8, or 10 years?
 
Initially I thought "Intriguing."

But I don't think it'll work.

If nothing else, you'll need a mechanism in place that's more effective than a recall (Mayor Funkhouser, anyone?) to get those out that either can't handle the job once they get there, or got there by fraudulent means.

And assassination is not the way to go about that.

Although that's intriguing too....
 
:thumbsup: I agree, Cheesy!
 
Initially I thought "Intriguing."

But I don't think it'll work.

If nothing else, you'll need a mechanism in place that's more effective than a recall (Mayor Funkhouser, anyone?) to get those out that either can't handle the job once they get there, or got there by fraudulent means.

And assassination is not the way to go about that.

Although that's intriguing too....

:lol:

Vote of No Confidence, perhaps? Perhaps the constituency could have an official way to petition the legislative organ itself for a special election to remove the candidate that sits outside the realm of political interference.
 
I think you are missing something. You are correct that because they have to worry about reelection they are in some way inclined to remain in favor with their voters. Without any possibility of a political career an elected office becomes nothing more than a one grab chance to fleece the place fore everything its worth right then and there.
 
I think you are missing something. You are correct that because they have to worry about reelection they are in some way inclined to remain in favor with their voters. Without any possibility of a political career an elected office becomes nothing more than a one grab chance to fleece the place fore everything its worth right then and there.

You mean that you think people will run for office just so they can screw stuff up and wreck it once they get elected?
 
I like the idea of term limits and reject the idea that restricting someone from running for an office perpetually is a bad thing; it's often enough argued that term limits would result in "less democracy", although I think that direct democracy is something to best be avoided. :)
 
Well what if term limits were lengthened to compensate? To, for example, 6, 8, or 10 years?

As I said above, even 12 years is likely not enough.

That said, under the current system there is always some turnover in Congress. It's imperfect, but I don't see anything else improving it.
 
You mean that you think people will run for office just so they can screw stuff up and wreck it once they get elected?

No, I think they will have no check on pissing off an electorate that is now nothing but a stepping stone with no further relevance to them and will instead pursue their own special interests without a single check.

You are also going to get thinks like in 2016 the Navy being budgeted for 600 warships, in 2020 it is changed to 300 and dozens are scrapped. In 2024 the navy is budgeted for 600 warships, in 2028 it is changed 300 and dozens are scraped. Government needs to have some consistancy.
 
As I said above, even 12 years is likely not enough.

That said, under the current system there is always some turnover in Congress. It's imperfect, but I don't see anything else improving it.
Incumbency is probably the most powerful factor in determining the results of Congressional elections, Cutlass; members of the House have been re-elected at a nearly uninterrupted 90% rate for the last 45 years.
 
I don't think term limits are necessarily a bad thing, when used properly. Eight years for a president is a good thing.

It should definitely be a sliding scale though. Upper cap of, I don't know, 12 to 16 years for a Congressman or Senator, definitely 8 for a president...

I think it would also be good if there was a "mandate by the people", where by an overwhelming vote the electee would be allowed to stay in office another term if their term limits were up. Call it 80% or so...more than 66%....
 
As I said above, even 12 years is likely not enough.

I don't deny there would need to be some simplification elsewhere. I don't see why this would be as disasterous as you think it would be, though. After all, was Obama not largely sold as being someone from "outside" of Washington politics?

That said, under the current system there is always some turnover in Congress. It's imperfect, but I don't see anything else improving it.

Improvement is the very subject of this thread. :)

No, I think they will have no check on pissing off an electorate that is now nothing but a stepping stone with no further relevance to them and will instead pursue their own special interests without a single check.

Yes I agree this was an area I overlooked. But what if there was some sort of ability to remove them, something like a Vote of No Confidence or a popular petition for their removal, like I described in an above post?

You are also going to get thinks like in 2016 the Navy being budgeted for 600 warships, in 2020 it is changed to 300 and dozens are scrapped. In 2024 the navy is budgeted for 600 warships, in 2028 it is changed 300 and dozens are scraped. Government needs to have some consistancy.

This is possible with the present system as well. But I don't think that we'd see that level of inconsistency. After all, if someone is running for office, they're going to have a sense of higher purpose, and probably be less prone to such drastic action as that. I just don't see it happening any more than it could happen now.

I think it would also be good if there was a "mandate by the people", where by an overwhelming vote the electee would be allowed to stay in office another term if their term limits were up. Call it 80% or so...more than 66%....

I like this. :goodjob:
 
IIRC, Max Weber talked about how there's an incentive for politicians who do not have job security in politics (since being in office depends campaigning and is not a very long stint anyway) to milk the system while they can. Or perhaps it could be said that this is precisely the incentive that makes people want to do it. However, OTOH, power corrupts. I suppose I too have to choose a compromise that is neither too long nor too short.

On the issue of seeking reelection and populism, I don't think there's much of a choice as long as representative democracy is the system. At least populist measures can benefit the common people, I guess.
 
I don't think that one term, however long, is enough time to get anything practical done in office.

I would support a change in House terms to four years, however.
 
Yes I agree this was an area I overlooked. But what if there was some sort of ability to remove them, something like a Vote of No Confidence or a popular petition for their removal, like I described in an above post?

That could definetly temper the office holder, but if this was in effect why would you need term limits at all?
 
I would support a change in House terms to four years, however.
Or even three years... By the time you get comfortable in the House, you have to start running for reelection. Give them another year to work without having to worry about reelection.

And if you want some real reform, have the election process start in July of that election year.... Not that it would work this way, but having their term stand has their election campaign makes sense to me.
 
Back
Top Bottom