On the Importance of the United Kingdom

Pillager

League of Empire Loyalist
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Originally posted by CurtSibling

@Pillager.

I have no desire to pick up a ban for going off topic any further.

It is clear we are from different worlds on this argument.

Your extreme belief in imperialism is influencing you in this debate.
A position of realism is where I am arguing from...

But as a closing statement, heed this...

The UK is NOT a superpower, we have no power to influence any but the most impotent nations when it comes down to it.

We DO take our lead and orders from the USA, no amount of patriotic ego-stroking is ever going to change this truth.


I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread on this, as I think it's an important and interesting subject of discussion, and one that's been raging probably since the 1880s, when our dominance first began to be challenged.

I hope you'll be open to continuing the debate.

In response to your last post:

I have never said that we are a superpower. There is only one superpower in the world. I merely maintain that we are at the 'top of the pile' of the rest of the world. I don't think that we are as important as say, Japan, economically, and we are obviously not as populous as many other countries, but I do think that a case can be made for the view that we are overall at least as important as any country in the world, bar the US.

As for 'realism', I don't think our drug problems nor having an unemployment rate as low or lower than nearly all of our main economic rivals undermines our standing in relation to them.

I include my last post from the other thread:


:
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Originally posted by CurtSibling


We still bow to outside pressure.
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As does every country. This doesn't reduce our importance in the world.



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Originally posted by CurtSibling

This is all speculation and non-definitive.
Mandarin Chinese is spoken by far more people than English.
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This again?! English is the most widely spoken language in the world. It is the language of popular culture, business, the internet. Apart from China, you name a country in which Mandarin Chinese is spoken widely, as either a first or second language. English is spoken as a first language in the UK, Ireland, the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, and others, and it is spoken by a large proportion of the population as a second language in pretty well every country in the world. It is so much more important that every other language in the world that the point is really indisputable.


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Originally posted by CurtSibling

Again, you use the USA as a benchmark.
Proving our reliance on a bigger power.
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Our relationship to the US is very important - everyone's relationship with the US is important because of her undeniable dominance. Our closeness to her is a part of our influence and strength, but not all of it.


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Originally posted by CurtSibling


Not anywhere do mention:

[1] Our giant debt,
[2] Our large level of unemployment,
[3] Our lack of decent military supplies,
[4] Our rampant drug issues,
[5] Our out of public touch and US-bowing premier,

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1. That is of little consequence in our world-wide standing. Look at the size of the USA's debt.
2. What??? Our unemployment is extremely low compared to France, Germany and Russia, and practically the same as the USA's. Ours is approximately 5% (lower on some measures), as is the USA's. Both France and Germany have unemployment of over 10%, and I shudder to think what Russia's is. Japan is the only major power to have lower unemployment.
3. That is a cause of concern, but it hardly invalidates my argument. We still have the most important military force in Europe, and one of the most important in the world.
4. I think you must be getting very desperate for arguments. This point is just irrelevant.
5. This is irrelevant too. Would you prefer Chirac the Criminal, or perhaps Schroeder 'promise everything to get elected, oppose the US to get elected, then do bugger all as my economy goes down the pan'?
 
Originally posted by Pillager


I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread on this, as I think it's an important and interesting subject of discussion, and one that's been raging probably since the 1880s, when our dominance first began to be challenged.

I hope you'll be open to continuing the debate.

In response to your last post:

I have never said that we are a superpower. There is only one superpower in the world. I merely maintain that we are at the 'top of the pile' of the rest of the world. I don't think that we are as important as say, Japan, economically, and we are obviously not as populous as many other countries, but I do think that a case can be made for the view that we are overall at least as important as any country in the world, bar the US.


To use a trite football analogy. We are probably in the Premier League but we certainly arent pushing for a place in Europe. We are the Tottenham of nations
 
Originally posted by Pillager
This again?! English is the most widely spoken language in the world. It is the language of popular culture, business, the internet. Apart from China, you name a country in which Mandarin Chinese is spoken widely, as either a first or second language. English is spoken as a first language in the UK, Ireland, the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, and others, and it is spoken by a large proportion of the population as a second language in pretty well every country in the world. It is so much more important that every other language in the world that the point is really indisputable.

The dominant position of English is indisputable. However, I would like to point out that your remark that Chinese is not spoken anywhere else is mistake. Chinese is spoken pretty much by everybody in Singapore. Large portions of people in Malaysia and Thailand speak Chinese, and most of the Southeast Asian countries have significant Chinese-speaking populace. Chinese won't be rivaling English anytime soon, but it is not going to be extinct or contained either.
 
Originally posted by nihilistic


The dominant position of English is indisputable. However, I would like to point out that your remark that Chinese is not spoken anywhere else is mistake.

Yes, fair point, I stand corrected.
 
Originally posted by nihilistic


The dominant position of English is indisputable. However, I would like to point out that your remark that Chinese is not spoken anywhere else is mistake. Chinese is spoken pretty much by everybody in Singapore. Large portions of people in Malaysia and Thailand speak Chinese, and most of the Southeast Asian countries have significant Chinese-speaking populace. Chinese won't be rivaling English anytime soon, but it is not going to be extinct or contained either.

Don't forget Tibet. ;) :(
 
Nice to start the thread with a pasted argument that you think puts you on a winning foot.

A scoundrel's tactic.

You have had a raw nerve tweaked, I deem!
So Pillager, I will make this statement.

The empire you cling to is long gone.

You seek a surrogate new one via the USA, I think.

I am mainly critical of some people (like yourself) who are, at the sight of some UK troops at war, filled with patriotic zeal, aping our superpower ally.

It is ridiculous to inflate the standing of a country that is at best an ex-super power, wallowing in ideas of lost grandeur.

Then to justify it using the same arguments again that the USA use, the supposed impotence of the continental Euro-nations.

While we are a capable nation we are still a servitor to US interests.

The idea that we have some great moral and military power over nations like Russia and China, is in a word, laughable.
 
Since we are in the G7 then its reasonable to say that we are at least pushing for Europe and may even get a Champions League place as we are fifth at the moment but we were fourth.
 
Define "above"
a·bove ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-bv)
adv.

1. On high; overhead: the clouds above.
2. In heaven; heavenward.
3a. Upstairs: a table in the dining room above.
3b. To a degree that is over zero: 15° above.
4. In or to a higher place.
5. In an earlier part of a given text: “The problems cited above have led to a number of suggestions for reform” (Wharton Magazine).
6. In or to a higher rank or position: the ranks of major and above.
While we are a capable nation we are still a servitor to US interests.
Better than being servitor to French...I mean European interests.
 
Originally posted by MrPresident

I disagree. Who is above us except for America? and why?
Iceland.
(that is, if you are holding your map with North upside)
 
Originally posted by CurtSibling
Nice to start the thread with a pasted argument that you think puts you on a winning foot.

A scoundrel's tactic.

You have had a raw nerve tweaked, I deem!
So Pillager, I will make this statement.

The empire you cling to is long gone.

You seek a surrogate new one via the USA, I think.

I am mainly critical of some people (like yourself) who are, at the sight of some UK troops at war, filled with patriotic zeal, aping our superpower ally.

It is ridiculous to inflate the standing of a country that is at best an ex-super power, wallowing in ideas of lost grandeur.

Then to justify it using the same arguments again that the USA use, the supposed impotence of the continental Euro-nations.

While we are a capable nation we are still a servitor to US interests.

The idea that we have some great moral and military power over nations like Russia and China, is in a word, laughable.

Its just as bad when those people who obviously despise their country try to put it down so often.


Ellie
 
Originally posted by ellie


Its just as bad when those people who obviously despise their country try to put it down so often.
Ellie

OH!

I see!

Because I do not fall into line with the opinions spoken by some of you...

I must 'despise' Britain'...
Utter junk. Is this all you have?

Pitiful!

I love my country. And the British Union. And I love being European

All the more reason to attack this wave of US-style patriotic blinkerism that is being spewed around here.
 
Lol since when has numbers defined a great military power because thats all Russia and China has going for it.
The Russians are totally skint and the creation of all their new military hardware is for sale to other countries.
You just have to look at the B**locks up they made of that theatre rescue.They gassed about 80 people to kill about a dozen terrorists.Couldn't see the SAS doing that.
China has a massive army yes.But its all conscripts.
Weight of numbers is becoming less of an issue.The Finns proved that against Russia.
WS~
 
Originally posted by WonderStuFF
Weight of numbers is becoming less of an issue.The Finns proved that against Russia.
WS~

If it is currently 'becoming' less of an issue;

Explain why you use an example from 1940?

And Finland's triumphs against Stalin were as much to do with Russian incompetence as it had to do with Finnish capability.
 
Originally posted by MrPresident
Better than being servitor to French...I mean European interests.

Sorry, MrPresident, your repeated rubbish about France might make you feel incredibly witty,
but in reality, you sound like a broken record and have 0% credibility in my eyes.

I will take notice when you say something sensible.

:)
 
Originally posted by CurtSibling


OH!

I see!

Because I do not fall into line with the opinions spoken by some of you...

I must 'despise' Britain'...
Utter junk. Is this all you have?

Pitiful!

I love my country. And the British Union. And I love being European

All the more reason to attack this wave of US-style patriotic blinkerism that is being spewed around here.

I never mentioned you curt

If you decided i was talking about you then you must have reasons,
:lol:
 
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