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On the Importance of the United Kingdom

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Pillager, Mar 24, 2003.

  1. Knight-Dragon

    Knight-Dragon Unhidden Dragon Retired Moderator

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    Coming fr a part of the old British empire (that's non-English but with an English-speaking population today), one has a certain perspective on this. The British spread the seeds for English around the world, thru their empire. The Americans would later reinforce these 'seedlings' thru their overwhelming economic dominance of the world, after the WW2 and when the British began decolonisation.

    In Singapore's and Malaysia's case, we speak English today merely because it's today's international language of business and commerce; not out of any longing for the old empire. :p This is due to America dominating the trading system in this part of the world. W/o America's influence, the locals would never have started English classes in our national schools - during colonial times, the Brits never bothered to teach too many locals the English language, except for the few missionary schools.

    I'll put the case, with America having the greater influence.
     
  2. ellie

    ellie Emperor

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    Indeed, ive rarely met a brit who isnt proud of being british. We just differ in our reasons

    Ellie
     
  3. thestonesfan

    thestonesfan A Client of Ron Kuby

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    Sure the Uk is important. Just ask any one of them that post here! :D
     
  4. ferenginar

    ferenginar Grand Nagus

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    This is an enormous questions that revolves around how you measure the importance of a nation,

    Is it military strength, economic, or political power? No it is a combination of all of these and many more besides. History, Culture, Reputation, Literary works, scientific achievements, dare I say it sport.

    No one here would doubt American Military strength, economic and political power, so are they the most important nation, who's in 2nd place, 3rd, Where does the UK rank, does it really matter?

    I do not think that any of this is important, to me what counts is how we conduct ourselves. Have we as a nation acted in a reasonable manner? Do we stand up to be counted, do we put ourselves at risk for the protection of others, do we fight Tyranny?

    Yes on all counts.

    I am proud to be British, I do not need a world ranking.

    Ferenginar

    For those of you who feel the need to be ranked, then may I suggest that as this is a civ site then why don't you use the demographics list as a template for likely contenders and put the argument to bed. Feel free to continue disagreeing if you wish.
     
  5. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    The decisive thread conclusion...:goodjob:
     
  6. ellie

    ellie Emperor

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    No thats a great post to finish it off and well put, thanks

    Ellie
     
  7. phoenix_night

    phoenix_night Deity

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    well you've just met another.
     
  8. WonderStuFF

    WonderStuFF Chieftain

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    Akka,

    When will France learn to just forget their hangups about the English/British and act in a more dignified manner?
    Look..you didn't liberate yourselves during the second world war as De Gaulle claimed.Napoleon wasn't defeated at Waterloo because he had piles as some French historians still maintain.
    France despises the British friendship with the USA for some reason and that still taints it's politics today.
    Political manouvering and threats to nations hopeful of joining the EU has shown the French to be lacking in honour and credability.
    The point i'am trying to make is that you will never get a good word out of a Frenchman regarding the UK..period.So why continue a 'debate' in this fashion.
    WS~
     
  9. WonderStuFF

    WonderStuFF Chieftain

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    Dammit another badly timed Post !!
    Yes....Ferenginar i totally concur..
    I agree thats the final word..well said.

    WS~
     
  10. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    WonderStuff, I would anxiously wait for you to point where I was scornful/disrespectful toward, or where I dispised UK.
    I also don't remember putting Napoléon or de Gaulle in the debate :hmm:

    You point that you will never get a good word out of a Frenchman regarding UK, I point that you will rarely get a good word out of a British regarding France.
    Just look at your outburst because I simply throw another point of view, not even disrespectful, on the UK position in the world.
    And look at how this makes you react, throwing insult at France.
    I'm not the one with some nationalistic grips here :)
     
  11. WonderStuFF

    WonderStuFF Chieftain

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    Yes...the two examples i gave were a bit ham fisted Akka.
    I have a habit of starting my posts angrily and then steadily become more reasonable as i go on.Well i hope so.
    Agreed it was a shoddy attempt at trying to sum up the issues/feelings on both sides and our take on things.
    Yes the 'good word part' is probably true of us also.
    I have never had a problem with the French people working from time to time in Le Harve.The frustration comes from the stances of our governments..probably felt on both sides by the populations.
    I was never a big Tony Blair fan coming from the opposite side of the political spectrum but he is seen here as constantly trying to placate the French and in turn being constantly being rebuffed.
    This of course comes from trying to bridge the gap between the US and Europe.It just comes across some deep seated dislike to the UK as being the main reason for the rebuff as oppose to any political disagreements.
    We dont crave to be liked in Europe but the least we deserve is a grudging respect.I hope that clarifies my position.
    WS~
     
  12. Portuguese

    Portuguese Vassalising Spain

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    One thing that makes it difficult for me to argue here is that many things I give for granted here in Port and that I speak without justifying them, US-UK citizens seem to don't see.
    I'll do my best to justify what I have never justified before and then I'll see by your reaction if it was enough or not.

    "The wide use of the English language was firmly in place in the world as the language of trade etc long before there was a USA so that point is invalid." > Old world languages (i. e. Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch and English) were "firmly in place in the world as the language of trade etc" and were spoken by a good percentage of world pop. HOWEVER the pop who understands English passed from, say, 30% to 70% due to US universal culture dominance. UK is responsible for the "native" english countries and for English as a business language, but only US, with Hollywood, Silicon Valley, Pentagon policies, NBA and other major sport leagues, major companies (Coca-Cola, Mc Donald's,...) and other "culture spreaders" made English a really universal language, a language that most of the world pop can (and have!) to understand. Besides that today most people speak American English rather than British English, because of the same motives (Hollywood, Silicon Valey, major sport leagues,...). Accept the fact: UK today is so relevant as Texas (I know Portugal is as Vermont, no need to say that to annoy me more...)

    "The UK is the US's pet.?
    Why is it always countries outside that relationship who see it that way?" > It's not a coincidence you know. Boy, this is really difficult to make an argument about... Let's pick an example: if Saudi Arabia moves were allways followed by a Koweit's similar move, no matter what the Saudi move was, always similar, always just after (and never before) and not considering others' move in whatever direction, just following and trying to justify always what the "big brother" do and never doubting it... how would you classify it? UK is today clearly the country US use to say:´?Hey, see them, we are not alone, we are leaders of a colliation' It's quite ridiculous to whom was a superpower just a century ago...

    "Also what influence was it that Belgium and Portugal has lost?
    " > Unfourtunatelly to me and my fellow citizens, we have lost most of our importance. Portuguese empire had Brazil, ALL Africa, ALL Asia and New Foundland in Canada. In 1820 Port still had Brazil, 5 African countries (includin Angola and Moçambique), East Timor and some Indian territories. In 2003, Portugal is only a 10 million country in a 6,000 million world and it's GDP is ridiculously small when compared with the greater world economies. If this isn't losing importance and influence...
    Belgium is the same, but in a minor scale.

    "Ok..this thread has the title'Iotuk',so i'll have a stab at that.
    Firstly i believe that the UK is the most influential nation in Europe" > 3rd by me.
    1st: Germany
    2nd: France
    3rd: UK
    4th: Italy
    5th: Spain
    Your opinion is clearly biased.
    Germany runs EU's economy at her will and it's leadership is so obvious that... well, you clearly failed here. Patriotism have limits...

    "Influential in terms of language,humour,music,sport,art ,theatre.Think the Beatles,James Bond,Tolkein,Rolling Stones,Man United,Liverpool,Harry Potter,Ben Elton,Blackadder,Billy Connolly.Ok some are silly but they are known all around the world as being British.What have the other nations got?France has Alain Delon and Germany had David Hasselhoff at number one for 2 weeks in their music chart with 'I'm a Knightrider'.Ok im joking and dont want anyone to get offended..but come on it's true." > Yeah, you sing and write, but Germany rules. Point.
    If you have doubts about this just see who controls European Central Bank (sorry if you are out :p ) and who has a biggest GDP, pop,... And in case you still doubt of this see whom automobile industries bough which... :rolleyes:

    "Yes America is a super power but would i rather be a yank than a Brit..No of course not.Being proud of my country for all the reasons i list above is what makes me proud." > Good you love your country. Just don't let that come over you and make you blind!

    "It's got nothing to do with harking back to the days of Empire as some would have you believe." > I disagree, but if you think that way...

    "If you ask the yanks who they would rather have at their side during a scrap or who would they rather listen to,The Beatles or David Hasselhoff,i reckon i know which way they would go....." > Good way to decide the content :p

    Hope to have helped. Waiting you understood what I wanted to mean with all this.

    Ricardo Magalhães
    (or Richard Magellan if you like ;) )
     
  13. ellie

    ellie Emperor

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    good grief are you still arguing this ?.

    Whoever said they would rather be a yank than a brit..leave the island at once!! ;)

    Sorry brits, due to sheer manpower differences we will never have an economy the size of germany.

    Yes we have the ability to put well trained forces around the world unlike anyone else in europe.

    But compared to the us its still not very impressive.

    And as mentioned.

    Having the most agressive military in the EU should not be our main reason for pride in britain.

    QUOTE
    ______
    do not think that any of this is important, to me what counts is how we conduct ourselves. Have we as a nation acted in a reasonable manner? Do we stand up to be counted, do we put ourselves at risk for the protection of others, do we fight Tyranny?

    Yes on all counts.

    I am proud to be British, I do not need a world ranking.
    _______
    Sums it up far more eloquently than me

    Ellie
     
  14. WonderStuFF

    WonderStuFF Chieftain

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    I'll save a lot of time here Portuguese..I have read through your'e post several times and to put it simply...I disagree with you.
    I'm sorry to put it so briefly after you spent so much time writing all of that but there really isn't anything else to say.
    Yes ellie this is dragging on to no avail but i at least thought that Portuguese deserved an answer for posting no matter how brief.
    WS~
     
  15. Ancient Grudge

    Ancient Grudge Its all in this life

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    hmmmm britain important not as important as china or russia nothing to do with language being widespread. But anyway we are important in the world less so in the E.U

    anyway :) long live the British Empire
     
  16. D' Artagnan

    D' Artagnan Mousquetaire du Roi

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    :hmm:
    Either some of you guys are living in another world, either you seriously need to have your feet on the floor. :rolleyes:
    How far can stupid nationalism go ? :rollesyes:
     
  17. Ancient Grudge

    Ancient Grudge Its all in this life

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    very very far :) and we love it british empire will never die.......... oh wait it has oh well long live the United Kingdom.... hmm how long will this last.......
     
  18. Ashoka

    Ashoka Reluctant Warrior

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    I love the UK. Some people are actually flying the UK flag in the Chicago area as an act of solidarity.

    I'd trade Bush for Blair any day. (I doubt I'll get any takers on that one.)

    I actually think the US would function better with a parliment - - and the Regan Era was as close to a Constitutional Monarchy as you could get without really having one.

    The BBC rules.

    I would never have made it through adolescence without Monty Python.

    The accent is *very* impressive - it lends a note of patrician credibility to even the most banal statement.

    British 80's pop/punk/new wave bands were the absolute high point of musical evolution.

    The food is pretty bad, though.

    God save the Queen!!!


    Ashoka
     
  19. Oruc

    Oruc Reactionary

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    portuguese when the hell did portugal own all of africa and all of asia they never owned that much.
     
  20. WonderStuFF

    WonderStuFF Chieftain

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    Ashoka,

    Got to agree with you on the food issue lol.....
    Good if your'e planning a heart attack in the near future 8D.
    And thank you for reminding me of Monty Python ;)

    WS~
     

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