Only 1 shooting this week so far

[Siderealex]

Instead of turning all schools into fortresses, why don't we just ban all assault weapons and large capacity clips (that you don't need for hunting or home defense) that keep getting used in these massacres? Then make psychiatrists report insane people to the authorities so they can't buy guns and clamp down on gun shows that have little regulation?

On the treatment of mental illness front I think the big culprits are the willingness and more importantly funding for long term treatment and care of such folks and to touch on what you posted. The stigma surrounding mental illness means that many people don't seek treatment out of fear or relatives ignore warning signs.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Instead of turning all schools into fortresses, why don't we just ban all assault weapons and large capacity clips (that you don't need for hunting or home defense) that keep getting used in these massacres? Then make psychiatrists report insane people to the authorities so they can't buy guns and clamp down on gun shows that have little regulation?

I think home defense is largely a myth. It is seems to be far more predicated on fear than any actual pressing need. What is worse is that those who likely do have a reason to have firearms to defend themselves and their families because they do live in violence-prone neighborhoods frequently do not do so due to having a criminal record, not being able to afford one, or have no desire to have them in their homes.

Again, only 34% of Americans own any sort of a gun according to recent Gallup telephone polls, much less handguns and assault weapons. When you take households into account, it is still less than half of them which have any sort of gun.

If you use GSS personal interview data, it is far lower:



But what we do know is that FBI background checks continue to increase dramatically since 2005.



Despite violent crime and homicides decreasing, it would appear that more people are getting concealed carry permits and buying more than one gun. The fear of violent crime seems to be increasing.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Meh, gun nuts have been stocking up to shoot down the 'black helicopters' Obama has unleashed to take over the country and put all us freedom lovers in FEMA camps.

 

[Phrossack]

If you need multiple magazines and AR-15s for home defense, then you're either James Bond or are routinely attacked by mobs of zombies or squads of mercenaries.

 

[Core Imposter]

Instead of turning all schools into fortresses, why don't we just ban all assault weapons and large capacity clips (that you don't need for hunting or home defense) that keep getting used in these massacres? Then make psychiatrists report insane people to the authorities so they can't buy guns and clamp down on gun shows that have little regulation?

First you have to find a way to guarantee the people access to arms to counter Federal power, then we can talk about a way to restrict access to disturbed individuals. I am willing to work with you.

I suggest the various States could be granted control of a limited number of nuclear weapons. This would be a good first step. With this concern out of the way we can look at some of your issues, which have some validity.

 

[JollyRoger]

How many bullets are acceptable?

One. Reloading via the muzzle only.

 

[bhsup]

If you need multiple magazines and AR-15s for home defense, then you're either James Bond or are routinely attacked by mobs of zombies or squads of mercenaries.

Why is it always "home defense" with you guys? There are multitudes of reasons why someone may want to own a firearm. Course, it being a fundamental right like speech, religion, etc, a reason shouldn't have to be given to begin with. Just "I want to get one" should be quite sufficient.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

On the treatment of mental illness front I think the big culprits are the willingness and more importantly funding for long term treatment and care of such folks and to touch on what you posted. The stigma surrounding mental illness means that many people don't seek treatment out of fear or relatives ignore warning signs.

I agree and I think an equally big problem on the mental health front is access to care. The uninsured like myself can't get it. Those with insurance often have to pay enormous sums out of pocket for treatment. My father is in the military and as such is covered by Tricare, which is an excellent government-provided insurance for military personnel and family. You can't get much better coverage than what Tricare offers and my family still had to pay a ton of money for me to go to therapy as a teen.

If I had been schizophrenic or had another serious mental illness, I don't know how they could have afforded it.

But the right doesn't believe in social medicine. So to each his own, and if one of them is insane and loaded for bear, well we need to start passing out more guns to gun down the gunmen. amirite?

I do hope this shooting does cause reform on the mental health front, but that is only half the problem and honestly I don't see any reform happening on anything so long as the Teahadists control the house.

One. Reloading via the muzzle only.

Agreed.

 

[JollyRoger]

Why is it always "home defense" with you guys?

Because that is where Justice Scalia has drawn the line.

 

[Farm Boy]

Agreed.

Oh come now, you catch even my candy-ass in that net with those restrictions.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Why is it always "home defense" with you guys? There are multitudes of reasons why someone may want to own a firearm. Course, it being a fundamental right like speech, religion, etc, a reason shouldn't have to be given to begin with. Just "I want to get one" should be quite sufficient.

"I just want to get one" was a right when the constitution was written and the only weapons available were clumsy, muzzle loading muskets.

I don't think most people want a blanket gun ban, but the firepower available now to any kid on the streets of Chicago is greater than the average Yankee squad in 1776, so it's a problem that needs fixing. It is a development that the founders didn't foresee and one we temporarily corrected with the AWB.

We need to correct it again, because giving the NRA everything they want leads to tragedy. We'll keep bringing up home defense when your side stops using it as a justification for "gimme AK's cuz the consitution!"

Oh come now, you catch even my candy-ass in that net with those restrictions.

Muzzle loading might be taking it too far, maybe. Truly, it's not like I want to 'take away your rights'; it's unfortunate that the rights we are talking about is the right to access weapons that would have been considered WMD's when the constitution was written.

Public safety trumps access to AR-15's in my opinion. People should not have to live in fear and deal with the fallout of these kinds of massacres because some people can't accept the terrible inconvenience of single-shot rifles and small capacity clips for handguns. Gun rights do not trump my right (or my children's right) to life.

 

[strijder20]

Slightly OT:
My newspaper is clearly taking a side in the gun restriction laws debate (I live in Belgium). Loosely quoting:

...It will be hard to find answers in the aftermath of this shooting, especially because some obvious ones are being overlooked (from context it is clear they're referring to restricting or even banning guns)

Gun restriction laws reduce the amount of deaths, which is widely known all over the world, but is still being debated in the U.S....

I wonder if all European newspapers (well, all 'mainstream' ones, not the extreme right ones) are like that? And how do they react in Asia and Oceania?

 

[Borachio]

From Aljazeera:

Television programmes and video games glorifying violence may also play a role in chipping away at compassion and rendering abstract the reality of human suffering - a reality already under attack thanks to the state's policies of blissful bellicosity, remote control killing and dehumanisation of "the Other", all of which negate its own humanity.

As for the ease of procuring weapons in the Land of the Free that facilitates the domestic orgy of violence, the Washington Post has offered a chart depicting UN figures for gun-related murders in 32 developed nations, accompanied by the following summary:

The United States has by far the highest per capita rate of all developed countries. According to data compiled by the United Nations, the United States has four times as many gun-related homicides per capita as do Turkey and Switzerland, which are tied for third. The US gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.

In the end, however, gun control is merely one of many issues requiring attention in a country that should itself be diagnosed as mentally ill.

Though naturally there's a declaimer that the author's opinions are her own and not necessarily that of Aljazeera.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Why is it always "home defense" with you guys? There are multitudes of reasons why someone may want to own a firearm. Course, it being a fundamental right like speech, religion, etc, a reason shouldn't have to be given to begin with. Just "I want to get one" should be quite sufficient.

You mean what occurred four and a half years ago after the last 3 Republican presidents deliberately placed reactionaries on the Supreme Court?

I have no problem at all with Americans who pass the proper background checks are allowed to own single-shot bolt action rifles quite suitable for any hunting or target shooting. Of course, that will still allow the occasional Charles Whitman Texas Tower type nut from sniping a few people before they are stopped. But there will be far less tragedies like the last one.

 

[kochman]

Instead of turning all schools into fortresses, why don't we just ban all assault weapons and large capacity clips (that you don't need for hunting or home defense) that keep getting used in these massacres? Then make psychiatrists report insane people to the authorities so they can't buy guns and clamp down on gun shows that have little regulation?

Having a cop at a school is hardly "turning all schools into fortresses"... let's cut the melodrama.

Why don't we ban those things?

Because some people don't want people stripping them of their rights because of their uncontrolled emotional outburts.

We just covered how banning LCMs is pretty pointless, but that's all some parrots know because that's what they hear... ban LCMs!!!

Ban AWs!!!
Almost never used in these terrible crimes... too hard to conceal...

These are just emotional responses to "scary" things.

 

[kochman]

Again, only 34% of Americans own any sort of a gun according to recent Gallup telephone polls, much less handguns and assault weapons. When you take households into account, it is still less than half of them which have any sort of gun.

47% Formy... 47%... "still less than half"...
So, just screw the 2nd amendment.

If 51% of households had one, would you change your position?
What's the point of mentioning the percentage when you are talking about violating a constitutionally guaranteed right?

 

[Agent327]

A "constitutionally guaranteed right" that is being abused.

I think I prefer "an emotional response" to your "Yeah, whatever..."

You seem to be of the opinion that incidents such as these are something to be learned to live with. So much for "freedom"...

The NRA has been remarkably silent following this latest incident. (Not that they are likely to change their stance, but at least they have the decency of silence.)

 

[JollyRoger]

The Constitutuionally guaranteed right, according to the conservatives on the Supreme Court is the right to apply for a license (which can be turned down) to possess a handgun in one's home for self defense purposes.

 

[kochman]

A "constitutionally guaranteed right" that is being abused.

It was a crime, had he not taken his own life, he'd be serving the rest of his life in prison.
That's what we do when people abuse the rights of others in the USA.

I think I prefer "an emotional response" to your "Yeah, whatever..."

My response hasn't been "Yeah, whatever"... that's completely baseless.

You seem to be of the opinion that incidents such as these are something to be learned to live with. So much for "freedom"...

Again, completely baseless.

Can you please stop being insulting to me because you are in an emotional outburst again.

 

[BSmith1068]

Can anyone give me a solid, valid, and good reason why anyone would need to own an assault rifle? “Because I want one” is not a valid reason.

How many more innocent people have to die before we have a legitimate debate about what is acceptable in our society?

Far less people die by other causes, yet there is swift and certain legal action taken to prevent future deaths. Take drop-side baby cribs as an example.

Sure the person that becomes a shooter is ultimately the problem. But that doesn’t mean that we have to keep making it easy for them to get the tools that they use to such great effect. And let’s stop making this discussion binary: either ban all guns entirely or free reign; it’s not the guns, it’s the crazies; fix mental health instead of gun control. There is an acceptable middle ground that can be found. It just takes some courage on everyone’s part to man up and have the discussion. And let’s be clear – there is no silver bullet to this problem. The solution has to be multi-faceted and will necessarily be complex. But one thing is clear. The status-quo is not working. Something has to give.