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Open Letter To Steam and Firaxis Games

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Aerion, Nov 16, 2010.

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  1. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    In all likelyhood the civilization franchise is now married with Steam. That means that people who dont like or cant use Steam dont get to playcivilization from here on out. I think that is a horrible tragedy.
     
  2. Surgeon

    Surgeon Warlord

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    Steam has prettymuch saved PC gaming from death all by itself. Stop pining for the past glory days of PC gaming where they actually took up prime real estate in stores and accept the current reality.

    Without steam PC gaming has a terrible distribution channel and a terrible chance of getting the sales that will keep quality PC games around (such as Civ5, yeh I went there!).
     
  3. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

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    To Aerion:

    Grow up. There is nothing wrong with Steam. You say "Steam" is arrogant, but you are ignorant.
    -"YET ANOTHER application running on my computer". So?
    -"connecting to the internet behind the scenes..." - What is wrong with connecting to the internet. Many applications do this, including your operating system. Don't like it? Disconnect from the internet. Steam only has to connect once, after that, you can run it in offline mode.
    -"...and eating up even more processing power" - Seriously, Steam uses diddly-squat. You cannot possibly notice it. Besides, if it wasn't Steam, it would just be some other DRM or online functionality built within the game.
    -"I set your application to "Offline" mode. Now every time I boot my computer, I get a freakin pop up telling me I'm in Offline mode." - This show me how computer literate you are. You can stop steam from starting on start up. If you didn't know this, then I imagine you would have quite a number of applications starting with Windows. And here you are complaining about Steam eating up processing power. LOL.
    -"SHAME ON YOU for forcing me to install this bloated, big-brother arrogant piece of crap software just to play your game." - No one forced you to do anything. If you really can't get past your own misguided unfounded fears about Steam, then just don't use it. This means you can't play Civ 5, but its still your choice.
    -"big-brother app" - OMG. Paranoid much? Basically everything you do online collects information about you, especially online stores (such as Steam), and I imagine even search sites like Google do.

    There are many valid reasons to complain about Civ 5. Steam is not one of them.
     
  4. ezwip

    ezwip Prince

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    I disagree with what you are saying simply because this game has been pirated since day one.
     
  5. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    You can run Steam without an internet connection. I also strongly contest your accusation the "rest of us" can't live without constantly being connected to the net. Somehow, I manage just fine when I don't have internet or am not using it (neither do I use twitter or have a "smart"phone).

    Like any game, its been pirated. However that hasn't stopped sales and Steam sells a lot of games despite piracy. Nobody in the industry releases exact numbers, but Civ5 is one of the most played games on Steam and has been since it was released. That doesn't indicate that Surgeon is completely wrong as he has a very valid point, although the whole "PC gaming is dying" argument is old and tiresome, as it has been happily "dying" since the 1980s. Many retail stores (who, at least in the UK, are whining about Steam doing well) barely give any attention to their PC selection, it is often poorly organized and unadvertised compared to the console games, if the store even has a PC selection! And they wonder why they aren't selling well...
     
  6. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Steam saving PC gaming has jack all to do with DRM. It has everything to do with shrinking retail shelf space. PC games *cannot* compete directly with Wii/360 games for scarce shelf space. Steam bypasses the issue.
     
  7. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    I was speaking metaphorically and generally.
     
  8. Achilleslastand

    Achilleslastand Warlord

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    The only people that love steam are people that are...
    1.Too lazy to drive to the store and buy a physical copy
    2.Too inept to install a patch manually
    Steam wants a monopoly on pc gaming and are helping kill the used pc game market.
    Steam could vanish like a fart in the wind and pc gaming would still thrive.
    All the 13yr old wii generation players love it tho.......

    Moderator Action: Please don't generalize that people that like Steam only like it for such negative reasons.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  9. sadu

    sadu Warlord

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    Lol at steam's primary purpose not being DRM. I'm sure it does lots of other weird and wonderful stuff, but it's still basically there to combat piracy. I'm told you can't ever sell your game secondhand once it's tied to your steam account, which is pretty poor taste in my opinion. Not that I plan on selling my copy of Civ.

    Steam does get in the way, and it's definitely adware/malware in the sense that it's constantly popping up with special deals and ads that I'm not interested in and didn't ask for. Right now it's doing "nothing" in the background still using 70Mb of my RAM - hardly the well-oiled non-invasive program that people are suggesting it is. How is it any different to some random toolbar that payloads itself into your browser when certain applications are installed?

    I'll give steam one huge thumbs up though - and that is that I don't need the DVD in my drive anymore. My Civ4 and CivRev disks are looking seriously ratty.
     
  10. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    You can turn off the notifications in the Settings menu. This is a non-issue nor does it make it malware or adware.

    Right now its using less than 6 MBs of RAM on my computer. If you have it open with the Steam store loaded and community page (they are only fully loaded up when you specifically select them) then yes it will use more, upwards of 70 MBs, however even then it shouldn't affect your game at all, and its easy enough to close the main window before you start a game/the game starts after you click play.

    Yep, this is one of my favourite parts of Steam :)
     
  11. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    This is complete and utter crap.

    1) We're getting close to the point where this won't even *be* an issue.
    2) I seriously doubt that finding and installing patches presents even a slight problem to the majority of Steam users.

    I love how you got the Nintendo Wii in there though. That's what all this is really about, after all.

    Congratulations maggot! You are now a grunt in the system wars. Honorable warriors such as yourself have joined the fray from Jr. High schools across the nation to prove, once and for all, which gaming platform gives you cooties!

    We will defeat the unbelievers!


    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    Moderator Action: No need for name-calling.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  12. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    Steam is a convenience whose price is too high..its like buying a maintenance warranty on a car that dictates when you can drive, who you can drive with and only allows you to get your car serviced or buy options from certain mechanics

    I think the most upseting thing is the human lesson. This experience has shown that civers dont care about their fellow civver. You'd think we'd be able to agree as a community that if some people dont like something that something shouldnt be forced on our fellow players.
     
  13. mva5580

    mva5580 Warlord

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  14. Moss

    Moss CFC Scribe Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: If this discussion continues on its current path, it will be closed. Discuss the topic at hand without personally attacking others.
     
  15. Cordycep

    Cordycep Chieftain

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    Steam only becomes a really problem if you have low system specs (I hear people with single core CPU's have connectivity issues), slow internet speed and/or most devestatingly, no money. It's far from bloatware and doesn't have some of the restrictions that GFWL has.

    It's just a cut and paste from the Steam forum: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590470

    Jarate is just another word Valve uses to replace other censored words that aren't considered swear words.

    That's why I wait for the sales. The only two games that I paid full price for on Steam are the ones I bought the CE from a store (Empire: Total War and Civilization V) and King's Bounty: Armored Princess (the expansion that I can't remember the name of) which I bought for $9.99 instead of $19.99 when there was a pricing error. Even so, most games are still cheaper on Steam than Australian retail, although that is changing now.

    If people are prevented from having fun because they're too focused on the small portion of RAM being used by the client, well there's nothing I can do about that. I haven't had any trouble clocking up quite a few hours on a few games now and I've met a fair few interesting people along the way.

    I will agree with you that things such as Steam shouldn't be forced onto those who do not want it, simply because people have different tastes, different desires and different opinions.
     
  16. Surgeon

    Surgeon Warlord

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    There are parts of Steam I don't like (mainly the chance of account bannage) but overall I can't argue against the good a solid distribution channel with features that a LOT of people like has made. Think about it. Games not made by Valve only started forcing people to use steam after steam had proved popular already, publishers have looked at the data and realised Steam ticks of very very few people compared to other DRM methods (Ubisoft, OMG what were they thinking).

    I wrote a reply and then realised other people above had done much better versions of the same thing. E.G."Piracy has always existed and probably always will".
     
  17. Wardancing

    Wardancing Warlord

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    Not only do some not seem to care about other civ'ers concerns, but also that some civ'ers will get upset when other civ'ers give their point of view.

    Exactly. I dont/cant speak for everyone who is against steam, but i believe a lot of us are just asking for a Choice. Not asking for the removal of steam, and not let anyone who wants to use it be free to, but some way for people who Dont want to use it have the ability. I hear some games allow you to use the disc in drive instead of (installing and going) online steam. Whether steam does shadey deals to get companies to not go this route, or if firaxis just didnt want to go this route, i dont think anyone knows.

    With larger files on the net, and more services for online downloading of movies, programs, games... these can be very large file sizes. More ISP's are turning to bandwidth limits per month. Comcast is one of, if not, the largest internet providers in the United States. They have a limit per month. Download some movies on your PS3, download a few games on steam, oops, you hit your limit. Your account is now suspended, if it happens again, they ban you from their services.
     
  18. Skwink

    Skwink FRIIIIIIIIIITZ

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    You tell um!
     
  19. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    This is neither Steam's fault nor responsibility. It is your personal responsibility to not exceed the download cap assigned to you based off the package you buy from your ISP. I have also never heard of an ISP banning you from their servers for going over the limit, they simply charge you large fees (if they do anything more than send a warning letter).

    Unless Comcast bans people instead of charging them more (which would lose them money) but that sounds a bit too ridiculous to be true.

    But yes download limits can really suck, especially if you live in rural areas. Where I live in BC they are pretty good, with SHAW Cable's Highspeed I get ~1MB/s download speeds and have a 75 gig monthly cap.
     
  20. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Thanks I didn't know about this. (I started getting the hint from Senethro's post earlier though).
     
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