Open Letter To Steam and Firaxis Games

[Dale]

That means that people who dont like or cant use Steam dont get to playcivilization from here on out. I think that is a horrible tragedy.

To them I say "SUCK IT!"

 

[Dale]

The only people that love steam are people that are...
1.Too lazy to drive to the store and buy a physical copy
2.Too inept to install a patch manually
Steam wants a monopoly on pc gaming and are helping kill the used pc game market.
Steam could vanish like a fart in the wind and pc gaming would still thrive.
All the 13yr old wii generation players love it tho.......

Moderator Action: Please don't generalize that people that like Steam only like it for such negative reasons.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Here's some more reasons for you:
3. I use Steam to find, buy and support Indie developers who never get shelf space (I have a lot of respect for someone starting out and getting a game on the board).
4. Through Steam's chat facility I get to stay in contact with not only friends, but even Firaxis devs.

 

[Wardancing]

This is neither Steam's fault nor responsibility.

Unless Comcast bans people instead of charging them more (which would lose them money) but that sounds a bit too ridiculous to be true.

Youre right. Its not steams responsibility, but its clearly an issue users have to keep in consideration, no? I see lots of people saying digital distribution is the wave of the future, and if the big boys (comcast) lead the way, there will be limitations on all ISP's in the future, so digital distribution Only seems like a bad thing imo.

Check comcasts FAQ. It clearly states you will get a phone call when you hit the limit once. If you hit the limit again within six months, youre gone for 1 year, and they will decide if youre allowed back at that point. There is no fee to pay. Warning, then gone.

But again, i understand its not steams concern. Its my concern, and this is supposed to be a letter to firaxis, and if there is a slight chance 2kgreg or someone else will pass my concerns along, thats great.

 

[Cordycep]

Exactly. I dont/cant speak for everyone who is against steam, but i believe a lot of us are just asking for a Choice. Not asking for the removal of steam, and not let anyone who wants to use it be free to, but some way for people who Dont want to use it have the ability. I hear some games allow you to use the disc in drive instead of (installing and going) online steam. Whether steam does shadey deals to get companies to not go this route, or if firaxis just didnt want to go this route, i dont think anyone knows.

With larger files on the net, and more services for online downloading of movies, programs, games... these can be very large file sizes. More ISP's are turning to bandwidth limits per month. Comcast is one of, if not, the largest internet providers in the United States. They have a limit per month. Download some movies on your PS3, download a few games on steam, oops, you hit your limit. Your account is now suspended, if it happens again, they ban you from their services.

I would say it's because Firaxis used Steamworks rather than Gamespy to handle their multiplayer match making. Who knows why? I never had a problem with Gamespy and used it for several other games. The few games that did give you a choice didn't use Steamworks, or at least only used it for achievements.

I know what you're talking about with internet quotas. I went to install Napoleon Total War and the first DVD was broken and downloading it would have eaten up 20GB/25GB of my quota (because it wasn't on my ISP's content server). Thankfully here, internet plans are finally increasing in speed and quota. Also, some of the major ISP's run content servers where you can download Steam games (one of the major reasons I chose Steam over GamersGate and Impulse), game updates, stream/download films(very slim selection)/tv series/various sports/radio etc., linux distros, other freeware and a few other things. All of it being unmetered provided you download from your designated ISP's content servers. I've gone a little off topic so I'll stop.

 

[Maniacal]

Youre right. Its not steams responsibility, but its clearly an issue users have to keep in consideration, no? I see lots of people saying digital distribution is the wave of the future, and if the big boys (comcast) lead the way, there will be limitations on all ISP's in the future, so digital distribution Only seems like a bad thing imo.

Check comcasts FAQ. It clearly states you will get a phone call when you hit the limit once. If you hit the limit again within six months, youre gone for 1 year, and they will decide if youre allowed back at that point. There is no fee to pay. Warning, then gone.

But again, i understand its not steams concern. Its my concern, and this is supposed to be a letter to firaxis, and if there is a slight chance 2kgreg or someone else will pass my concerns along, thats great.

I do agree it is worth taking into consideration when making digital purposes, keeping in mind you can backup the content of your Steam games even if you don't install from the DVD (just copy and paste the game's folder somewhere, like backup hard drive or even a DVD if you want).

Didn't know that comcast was THAT bad but I've never (and hopefully never will) have to deal with them. I have a friend who has torrented hundreds of gigabytes (I'm not kidding) of music, movies and TV shows over the years and SHAW's never charged him a cent for going over the limit afaik. Really not sure how he's gotten away with it.

I would say it's because Firaxis used Steamworks rather than Gamespy to handle their multiplayer match making. Who knows why? I never had a problem with Gamespy and used it for several other games. The few games that did give you a choice didn't use Steamworks, or at least only used it for achievements.

I don't see what Firaxis' choice to use Steamworks over Gamespy (which I have heard many groans about over the years, although I've never really been bothered to find out why there seems to be a general dislike for it) has to do with that. You'd to download patches anyways...

I know what you're talking about with internet quotas. I went to install Napoleon Total War and the first DVD was broken and downloading it would have eaten up 20GB/25GB of my quota (because it wasn't on my ISP's content server). Thankfully here, internet plans are finally increasing in speed and quota. Also, some of the major ISP's run content servers where you can download Steam games (one of the major reasons I chose Steam over GamersGate and Impulse), game updates, stream/download films(very slim selection)/tv series/various sports/radio etc., linux distros, other freeware and a few other things. All of it being unmetered provided you download from your designated ISP's content servers. I've gone a little off topic so I'll stop.

Um, I'm pretty sure NTW is not 20 gigs in size. I also have never heard of the ISPs having designated content servers for companies' products (like Steam) they have nothing to do with. Please elaborate.

 

[Wardancing]

I would say it's because Firaxis used Steamworks rather than Gamespy to handle their multiplayer match making. Who knows why? I never had a problem with Gamespy and used it for several other games. The few games that did give you a choice didn't use Steamworks, or at least only used it for achievements.

Well i searched and found the game i was thinking of is Football Manager 2011. You have the choice to either install/online check with steam, or completely forget steam, and use the disc.

I cant seem to find any information as to whether its a steam exclusive game or not, but i see it showing up in searches with wording like 'steam powered'.

I liked gamespy, because you had the choice to install or not.

I really wish firaxis would have given this choice to its users. Again, choice is the key word here. Im not asking for them to remove steam for everyone, just the people who want to.

 

[ezwip]

4. Through Steam's chat facility I get to stay in contact with not only friends, but even Firaxis devs.

Yep, pretty much confirms my suspicion. Sup Dale.

- Gyrate

 

[AlpsStranger]

Yep, pretty much confirms my suspicion. Sup Dale.

- Gyrate

Dey iz out dere!

I don't understand why this trash and nonsense is still allowed on the forum. I have no doubt I'll be moderated for this while you remain free to spin your tinfoil hat crap unimpeded.

 

[Maniacal]

Well i searched and found the game i was thinking of is Football Manager 2011. You have the choice to either install/online check with steam, or completely forget steam, and use the disc.

I cant seem to find any information as to whether its a steam exclusive game or not, but i see it showing up in searches with wording like 'steam powered'.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/233554-Football-Manager-2011-FAQ
http://www.footballmanager.com/demo

Not quite sure about that, the game is supposed to be activated through Steam. There is a stripped down non-steam demo but nothing that says there is a non-steam full game. Gotta love a lack of information eh?

I liked gamespy, because you had the choice to install or not.

If you don't install Gamespy you can'y plat the multiplayer. which makes some games kind of pointless.

 

[jdp29]

Steam is a problem if you don't want another application on your computer, period. There is no use in defending it, the point is that it is another application that is running in the background.

Not everyone wants extra programs to play a game, especially a game that has never been married to Steam till now. I am certain it came as a shock to many players that they would need to use it just to play Civ 5.

Don't forget, only a very small majority of players actually read these forums, or the Civ Websites. Very few people would know beforehand they need Steam. Only a small majority of players read everything on the back of a game, in that very small fine print, to find out what is required.

If they are going to make us use steam, at least they could throw us a freaking bone and give us a real instruction book ffs. Making us print out a pdf is a really low brow, bargain bin tactict.

 

[Dale]

Yep, pretty much confirms my suspicion. Sup Dale.

- Gyrate

What, that I talk to people? If you must know, I talk to the Firaxis devs to get bugs fixed.

Oh wait, that would be actually productive and positive wouldn't it? Just imagine I abuse them then okay?

 

[Maniacal]

If they are going to make us use steam, at least they could throw us a freaking bone and give us a real instruction book ffs. Making us print out a pdf is a really low brow, bargain bin tactict.

While I agree the .pdf manual is kind of useless for actually referencing in game (come on, let us at least be able to view it through the in-game community stuff!) it does save on paper (which actually is the reason Firaxis gave).

What, that I talk to people? If you must know, I talk to the Firaxis devs to get bugs fixed.

Oh wait, that would be actually productive and positive wouldn't it? Just imagine I abuse them then okay?

So are you still up for the Diamond Skeet shoot this weekend? Don't forget your towel made from $100 bills.

 

[PieceOfMind]

The manual was pretty bad anyway, as a reference piece anyway, as a lot of the data is either wrong, misleading or missing. It's probably a good move that they didn't bother to print it.

 

[Wardancing]

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/233554-Football-Manager-2011-FAQ
http://www.footballmanager.com/demo

Not quite sure about that, the game is supposed to be activated through Steam. There is a stripped down non-steam demo but nothing that says there is a non-steam full game. Gotta love a lack of information eh?


If you don't install Gamespy you can'y plat the multiplayer. which makes some games kind of pointless.

The information is on the official FAQ:

Spoiler :

The retail boxed version of Football Manager 2011 has two installation delivery options; STEAM or Offline.
STEAM
STEAM requires internet access but not the game DVD. It installs patches and data updates automatically.

Offline
The offline system does not require internet access but you need to have the DVD in the DVD drive at all times to play the game. Patches and data updates will have to be downloaded / applied manually.

http://www.footballmanager.com/faqs/844

They just seem to care more about the users, and give a choice.

 

[Jolly Rogerer]

Steam is actually a funner program than Civ5, so count your blessings.

 

[Maniacal]

The information is on the official FAQ:

Spoiler :

The retail boxed version of Football Manager 2011 has two installation delivery options; STEAM or Offline.
STEAM
STEAM requires internet access but not the game DVD. It installs patches and data updates automatically.

Offline
The offline system does not require internet access but you need to have the DVD in the DVD drive at all times to play the game. Patches and data updates will have to be downloaded / applied manually.

http://www.footballmanager.com/faqs/844

They just seem to care more about the users, and give a choice.

Missed that thanks, I think I posted that in another thread a few weeks ago actually eh. Good for them

Though I'd still use the Steam version myself, really don't like using the discs anymore heh.

 

[Cordycep]

I don't see what Firaxis' choice to use Steamworks over Gamespy (which I have heard many groans about over the years, although I've never really been bothered to find out why there seems to be a general dislike for it) has to do with that. You'd to download patches anyways...


Um, I'm pretty sure NTW is not 20 gigs in size. I also have never heard of the ISPs having designated content servers for companies' products (like Steam) they have nothing to do with. Please elaborate.

It's something to do with the Steam client being a requirement for using Steamworks. I've never heard of a game using Steamworks that doesn't require the Steam client. Somebody explained it to me a while ago and I'm a little fuzzy on some of the points made. I guess the best people to ask besides Valve is Tripwire Interactive since they've used Steamworks for all their games to date.

From the Steam stats page, all the Australian content servers are run by ISP's, most likely to offer unmetered content to their customers. I know that the big ones, Bigpond (GameArena), Internode and 3FL all offer unmetered content on those servers. Whether the others do the same is unknown to me.

NTW is around 22.3GB on my HDD. It might have been less on release but I only bought it in June or July of this year after a few updates.

Well i searched and found the game i was thinking of is Football Manager 2011. You have the choice to either install/online check with steam, or completely forget steam, and use the disc.

I cant seem to find any information as to whether its a steam exclusive game or not, but i see it showing up in searches with wording like 'steam powered'.

I liked gamespy, because you had the choice to install or not.

I really wish firaxis would have given this choice to its users. Again, choice is the key word here. Im not asking for them to remove steam for everyone, just the people who want to.

UT3 after the Titan Pack allowed you to do the same thing. People were able to activate Prey on Steam after their digital distributor went bankrupt but I don't think activation is a requirement. DoW Soulstorm was also on the list but disappeared soon after.

The manual was pretty bad anyway, as a reference piece anyway, as a lot of the data is either wrong, misleading or missing. It's probably a good move that they didn't bother to print it.

It was useless to the point where I don't know why they bothered. I like the new layout of the civlopedia but it gives equally useless information. For the wonders, it would list the history rather than the hammers required and the benefits received.

 

[Dale]

So are you still up for the Diamond Skeet shoot this weekend? Don't forget your towel made from $100 bills.

Can't afford to do that now. US dollar is worth nothing against the Aussie now.

 

[snoochems]

Steam is a problem if you don't want another application on your computer, period. There is no use in defending it, the point is that it is another application that is running in the background.

Not everyone wants extra programs to play a game, especially a game that has never been married to Steam till now. I am certain it came as a shock to many players that they would need to use it just to play Civ 5.

Hey, I am all for maximising computer performance. I make sure no programs are running that do not need to be, and tweak my PC so its humming along as fast as it can. Steam though, I see as my gateway to my games. Basically every game is on there. I even repurchased games on Steam that I already owned on optical media, just so I could keep it all in one place. It use 3/5th's of sweet f all in terms on CPU time and RAM, so I can not see that as a valid reason to hate on Steam. And as a constant computer tweaker etc, I am often reinstalling Windows. Do you know how easy it is to have all your games installed with Steam? Just copy the Steamapps folder over. Done.

 

[Maniacal]

Hey, I am all for maximising computer performance. I make sure no programs are running that do not need to be, and tweak my PC so its humming along as fast as it can. Steam though, I see as my gateway to my games. Basically every game is on there. I even repurchased games on Steam that I already owned on optical media, just so I could keep it all in one place. It use 3/5th's of sweet f all in terms on CPU time and RAM, so I can not see that as a valid reason to hate on Steam. And as a constant computer tweaker etc, I am often reinstalling Windows. Do you know how easy it is to have all your games installed with Steam? Just copy the Steamapps folder over. Done.

You do know you can add non-Steam games' shortcuts and launch them through Steam right? Cause its totally awesome.

It's something to do with the Steam client being a requirement for using Steamworks. I've never heard of a game using Steamworks that doesn't require the Steam client. Somebody explained it to me a while ago and I'm a little fuzzy on some of the points made. I guess the best people to ask besides Valve is Tripwire Interactive since they've used Steamworks for all their games to date.

I misread your post a bit. Yes they chose Steamworks for their MP instead of Gamespy (though they could still have used Gamespy, which they did for hosting the mods lsited ingame).

From the Steam stats page, all the Australian content servers are run by ISP's, most likely to offer unmetered content to their customers. I know that the big ones, Bigpond (GameArena), Internode and 3FL all offer unmetered content on those servers. Whether the others do the same is unknown to me.

I see, no idea about the Australian situation. Most of the servers (especially in ANorth America) are owned (or rented) by VALVe and that's where I live

NTW is around 22.3GB on my HDD. It might have been less on release but I only bought it in June or July of this year after a few updates.

Hmm, my Empire: Total Warfare install is 16 gigs. However I'm pretty sure the actual download is compressed and significantly smaller.

UT3 after the Titan Pack allowed you to do the same thing. People were able to activate Prey on Steam after their digital distributor went bankrupt but I don't think activation is a requirement. DoW Soulstorm was also on the list but disappeared soon after.

Neither DoW Soulstorm nor Prey use Steamworks though, Football Manager does. No idea about UT3.