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Opening strategies

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by salty mud, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

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    Hello
    I'm quite new to this mod. Are there any places one can read about opening strategies or best moves to make? Is there a preferred tech order?
    Many thanks
     
  2. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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  3. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    I'm working on a tutorial for that but it's still a work in progress. If you're curious, you can find it here. It's incomplete but it's a start.
     
    JamesNinelives and salty mud like this.
  4. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Prince

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    One of the many beauties of VP is that it is offering a player much freedom when it comes to playstyle. Unlike vanilla many policy tress and combinations are strong and viable,you are not locked to four cities tradition anymore. Of course certain starts call for certain measures. You cannot possibly go tradition on a very bad land with two warmongers as your only neighbors on the opposite sides of your borders. You shouldn't also take progress or authority when you don't have many good city locations or you are not planning to war, peacefully or not, you have to expand to at least seven cities, more provided there will be good city locations (but not too early! you need to have enough of development potential with workers and gold to invest in buildings and good tiles to work). For right or ninth city it is sometimes worth to wait until pioneers (build settler in advance, and upgrade to pioneer with gold, as they are four times more expensive in production)

    When settling a city, especially a capital, the most important part is what immediate good tiles it would have within its immediate borders. Three food or production tiles are awesome. Generally you want a mix of food and production and gold, city that mostly have flatland for farms is a bad idea.
    Try to put your cities so that they bonuses stack. For example if you have location for two good cities with three pastures and five forests and two plantations, don't split them but maximize. Put one city so it can have stables and all three pastures connected, and the other so it can work two plantations and at least four forests to maximize herbalist and workshop bonuses. It would be much better than making stables and herbalists in both cities, you save production and get all of bonuses. Same with stone and stone works (never built it for one resource). If you go wide, split guilds so every city will have one of them.
    Mixing policies, especially tradition with progress, is usually a very bad idea as you should aim for different things with them. The only exception to that is progress with authority but it requires sacrifices from second policy trees and is more advanced. Finishing trees is very good.
    Tech order will very because of two things: wonders and unique buildings to beeline and terrain. With plantations luxuries you want calendar fast, with camps you want trapping and so on.
    Generally, they are two opening strategies: tall which is tradition, with which you should focus on working specialists, getting key wonders (Hanging Gardens or Artemis (terrain dependent) or Great Library) and delay other cities a little, or wide with progress or authority, which should focus on getting as much cities as possible as fast as possible and enough workers to connect resources and get monopoly bonuses.
    If you want religion build invested shrines first in other cities.
    If going progress always take opener, then worker policy, then plus three science and three food in cities (unless it's coastal, then go left side first). Use you free worker to improve luxuries and buy another to build a city connection to your capital.
    If going progress prioritize close city locations than far away, as you want to build road between cities to get plus three science as fast as possible.
    The best utilization of your gold early is to buy workers and using workers to connect luxuries to sell to the AI (always sell all initial copies, happiness is not an issue at this point of the game) and getting yields and monopolies.
    Whatever you aim for, in early game prioritize getting religion as strong religion is worth at least as much as full finished policy tree.
    Worker or unit is nearly never a good option for the first thing to build in your capital. I always start with a monument but shrine is also viable if your civ doesn't have any bonuses to religion.
    Early policies, pantheon and religion beliefs are the most important choices of the game I think, more than tech order. All are strong, but some can be far stronger for you than others depending on your game plan (tall or wide).
    It would be easier to say something if you will ask more direct questions or if you will share some screenshots of your early games with us. Then we could tell you what to improve when you show us how to you play tradition or authority. Good luck, have fun :c5happy:
     
  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    The best opening strategy is knowing your surroundings. How other would you know whether to prepare for immediate war, heavy expansion or growth?
     
  6. akasha27

    akasha27 Chieftain

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    I actually find good to take the tradition opener first, even if after I'm going to progress. What do you think about it?
     
  7. andersw

    andersw King

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    There are a couple of different approaches.
    Opening stonehenge -> pantheon
    opening pyramids for the free settler
    are both fairly common, tech order depends a bit if you plan to war or go heavy tradition, its far less set in stone since science doesnt scale directly on pop like in vanilla.

    Early animal husbandry is good to reveal horses for one early city, pottery for settlers and other techs for lux improvement.
     
  8. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    akasha27 likes this.
  9. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Prince

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    There's a whole thread about this, people seem to like it. My nemesis @CrazyG (very good player by the way) lobbies for it. I'm against that. It could be seen a good early policy but it short sighted, I think it looses massively in the mid game while also being either weaker or the same level in early game. Tradition opener is for securing wonders, allowing you to grow capital and working specialists. Progress is as far away from this as it can get, your capital should be constantly producing settlers and going from size 3 to 4, unless your other cities are ready to take on that, so you gain like 1.5 culture from tradition opener and you delay your development, your free worker, bonuses from monopolies, yields from improved tiles, gold from selling luxuries, science from city connections and culture for building buildings (lol). So you hurt yourself very considerably and delayed culture from buildings (very badly since it's your sixth policy not fifth) also means delayed openers for medieval policy trees and their policies which are all very powerful. Not having this gold from citizens, and great writers, and happiness also hurt in the long run, and even more so if you finish it by sacrificing more powerful tenet and later policy.
    Also progress is getting a bump in gold, production and culture next version so this should even more discourage you.
     
    akasha27 likes this.
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Milae's video is good. He also has a very relaxing voice and the music is nice.

    You aren't my nemesis. Sorry I don't respect your strategies in this game. I would recommend any new player looking to improve avoids your advice entirely.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
    stii likes this.
  11. Drakle

    Drakle Warlord

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    I haven't tried it, but would the reverse, Progress Opener and then Tradition work? I've only mixed Authority and Tradition, so I can't say.

    It contains the first culture for tech progression. You won't get the later ones throughout the tree, but it is still something. And unlike Progress, it isn't diluted by as many cities. And you get the science for the capital population, which doesn't get upgraded throughout the tree and is very important for Tradition, a strong and big capital.

    It also delays the extra 2 population from Tradition a bit, so you could get a more valuable say 5-7 or 6-8 instead of the usual 3-5 or 4-6.

    Of course, it generally shows down completing Tradition (which can be bad, since Sankore is earlier on the tech tree), and puts the early faith at the third policy, instead of second. And slows Artists and Engineers.
     
  12. stii

    stii Prince

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    I think mixing is possible but not really a good idea for a new player. Just pick a tree and fill it out. While things are different than the base game you can still do roughly the same.
     
    CrazyG, CppMaster, vyyt and 2 others like this.
  13. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Prince

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    Of course you would. So what's specific advice I gave to @salty mud in my post would you not consider good? I'm pretty confident my advice to him as a new player was sensible and useful.
    It is you who in your own thread advised opening tradition and then not completing progress and then noticed that your strategy is bad. I didn't post anything that you can't find in Milae videos, which you recommended. So?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020

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