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Opinions of France

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by GT_OKEZ, Oct 31, 2016.

  1. isau

    isau Deity

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    Here's the experimental mod I'm tweaking with for France currently:

    - Changed pre-req from Humanism to Culture and Poetry
    - Added 1 Housing
    - Added Appeal bonus Tourism similar to a Beach Resort, but without a minimum Appeal requirement or need to be near Ocean (Chateau already requires a River).
    - Moving appearance of spies from Castles to Masonry (still working on this part)


    I will report back with how it goes.
     
    Atlas627 and Eagle Pursuit like this.
  2. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    Nicky Minaj more likely. And no, she isn't awesome. The game was out for little over a week and already I'm sick and tired of her ghetto "Oh no you didn't!" -gesture. Which I see pretty much constantly, playing above prince.
     
  3. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    As Catherine, how do you get your spies to high levels? Mine always get caught or run their heists unsuccessfully, maybe because I play on Immortal? XD
     
  4. Exodite

    Exodite Chieftain

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    What I were trying to get at is that even when aiming at a cultural victory I'd be more inclined to build farms and mines over Chateaus, the reason being that food and production will help you generate more culture and tourism in the long run than the Chateau will.

    Certainly you'd be able to switch out a few of those improvements for Chateaus but it's not really advisable. The game doesn't encourage diversification, if one mine is good then five is better. What follows is that unless five Chateaus are good it's unlikely that one will be.

    I definitely like the idea of having them provide housing and I'd also like to see some form of upgrade path as other unique tile improvements that are available earlier in the game gets improved with new tech/civics.

    Also pushing them to an earlier position in the tree would be nice.

    The other issues with the specials, the wonder bonuses being bland and the unique unit not really being worth the effort over infantry are also good points made by others.
     
  5. isau

    isau Deity

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    Here is the mod where I improved the Chateau (and also the Spanish Mission, which is another really spotty improvement). In the end I couldn't make it identical to a Seaside Resort because of some database limitations (an improvement can only provide one source of Tourism and the Chateau already does from Culture). But I did give it +1 Housing, unlocked it earlier (Drama and Poetry), and changed when its Tourism unlocks so it starts providing at Humanism instead of waiting for Flight.

    (For the Mission I just unlocked it much earlier even if its anachronistic and made it so it doesn't remove woods/jungle, so you keep that bonus when you build on it.)

    Hopefully Firaxis makes these buildings better and the mod will no longer be necessary, but its here if you want it for now.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/quos-better-france-and-spain.25458/
     
  6. JustMormegil

    JustMormegil Chieftain

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    For me, France is powerful mid-game conqueror. If it survives first 100 turns (on Quick) with average economical base and gets it UU... it becomes unstoppable on its continent.
     
  7. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    I think the chateau should work similar to the Chinese Great Wall - be available with Castles, provide Housing and/or Food and act as Fort early on, then later provide Culture and Tourism.
     
    Atlas627 likes this.
  8. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

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    France may be the most vanilla Civ in the game.
     
  9. Ikael

    Ikael King

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    Really cool ideas here. Earlier access to Chateaus is a must so France can start its cultural game from the get to go, and housing is an extremely useful yield to boot.

    However, the mission / Spain situation is more complicated. Earlier access to it doesn't quite fit thematically, and their yields are still too poor in the mid-late game. Spain needs a major overhaul on its LUA and UA in order to make it work, me thinks.
     
  10. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

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    Spain should receive the same benefit as Japan with holy sites being half the cost and perhaps a 25% discount on apostles. I don't think that would break anything. Change the mission into a replacement for the temple (with a discount) that gives it's described bonuses.

    France's special ability should be a flat 10% increase to wonder production across the board throughout all ages. For the Chateau eliminate the river adjacency requirement and allow it to be available earlier in the civics tree (drama and poetry).
     
  11. isau

    isau Deity

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    What I'd really like for Spain, long term, would be for them to be able to "steal" the religion of another civ if they conquer the Holy City. I think that would fit well with how Spain is situated in this game. Basically, once they conquer the Holy City, they are now considered the Founder (unless they already Founded a religion). That is not possible to code at the moment, but I'd like to see it implemented at some point.
     
  12. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

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    The problem with Spain isn't their religious game once it's started but it's getting up to that point. They have no bonuses founding a religion and are extremely slow and vulnerable in the early game including getting a coastal bias. I'd say eliminate Spain's coastal bias too.
     
  13. Aenthin

    Aenthin Warlord

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    As weak as chateaus might seem, they do give me a decent to insane border expansion growth, as well as boost my civics tree without having to rely on the theater district or cultural city-states so much. Compared to my last game as Egypt, I had bought tiles for far less. Makes me think it could actually be useful for planning around a national park or seaside resorts on the furthest tiles. It also actually means I can space my cities a bit further away, although I kinda realized that too late in my current game.

    Once Castles has been researched, it's actually time for Catherine's ability to shine. The extra spy has been really nice when I need to buy my next building or builders.
     
  14. Elikal

    Elikal Chieftain

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    Well raising the white flag IS something very French lol XD
     
  15. isau

    isau Deity

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    I agree with you. I think Spain is too weak, given that if they don't found a religion they miss out on a huge part of their advantage.

    But rather than just make them better at founding a religion, I'd like them to be able to steal it. That's why I think part of Spain's ability set should be "Becomes the new Founder of a religion when conquering a Holy City." That would be totally unique, and somewhat truer to history (Christianity was def not founded in Madrid, lol). And it would mean part of the Spanish game might mean lying in wait as another player spreads religion everywhere., so that you can grab it for yourself.

    If that's overpowered, they could just make it so capturing a Holy City eliminates that religion from the game and issues you a new Great Prophet.
     
  16. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

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    That or give Spain an extra founder belief. Philip's ULA could be modified to +5 combat strength versus anyone who is not your religion which includes anyone without a religion (except barbs).

    But again that's buffs to Spain's religious game which isn't that bad to start with. It's just getting that religion online and situated where the problem comes in.

    Maybe its can be like:


    *Leader gets +5 combat bonus to anyone not following his religion (including Civs with no religion - minus barbs). Essentially as soon as you found a religion this bonus kicks into effect. Also receives one extra founder or follower belief (5 beliefs instead of six - this might be overpowered though)Inquisitor extra charge removed. Alternatively, instead of Philip's cities taking the usual >50% de-conversion requirement to change the religion it takes >75%(Philip's cities are more resistant to being converted away from his religion. It fits the theme of Philip being the counter reformer and the anti-religious victory Civ.)

    *-50% production cost to Holy Sites and -25% faith cost for apostles
    * Mission replaces temple as a unique building instead of a tile improvement - gets the same bonuses -50% faith cost to build.
    * Coastal bias removed

    Thoughts or too OP?
     
    Babarigo likes this.
  17. isau

    isau Deity

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    The problem with extra Founder beliefs is the same issue Theodora had in Civ 5. She had an extra belief on Founding a religion, but often failed to do it because she wasn't fast enough to found the religion.

    Now I will say that with further experimentation I've gotten better at founding a religion in general. The key is Holy Site prayers in a high production city. Unfortunately Spain is often cursed with low production starts. It does go to show that Hammers >>>> everything else (except arguably Gold).

    Perhaps Philip could get a bonus to GPP generated from Holy Site Prayers.
     
  18. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

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    Then when Philip founds a religion he gets to choose 3 beliefs instead of 2 meaning less evangelize requirements. That means it automatically kicks in.

    I think half cost of the holy site is better than any prayers buff. Prayers are a gigantic nerf to production (of other things) and Philip already suffers from early game production because of Spain's stupid coastal bias. They already do it for Japan I don't see why this wouldn't logically and thematically fit with Spain too. IF they are going to force Spain to be coastal civ then also make the Harbor half price like they half the cost of Japan's encampment and theater.
     
  19. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf King

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    Played my first game in Civ VI as France (King, Large Continents, Epic); I figured my first game would be a good time to play with Catherine's extra diplomatic access, and not really have to worry about establishing embassies early on. It's a very "meh" ability, though I suspect I'll miss it once I no longer have it.

    The real bread and butter of France is their unique ability: the boost to Medieval, Renaissance and Industrial era wonders, along with double tourism from wonders. This came in VERY handy, particularly when I found out an opponent had started a wonder I wanted (using that handy diplomatic access) - I was able to start it myself and build it faster. I set out for a culture victory, so I wanted as many wonders as possible. In addition to Petra and Terracotta in the classical era, I also grabbed Bolshoi, Hermitage, Forbidden City, and Oxford, then Cristo Redentor and the Eiffel Tower (of course!) in the modern age. I did get beaten to a few though!

    The Garde Impériale is a good unit. Comes a bit late, but they're basically more powerful Infantry that comes earlier than Infantry. If a mid-late game war happens on your continent, these guys are nice to have. Not game-defining however.

    The chateau is pretty, so I built a couple just to look at them. But they're very underpowered right now. I agree with someone earlier (didn't quote them) who said that if the chateau wonder bonuses stacked they might actually be decent. The biggest drawback, besides the low tile yield, is the fact that they have to be built on rivers. So many things have to be built on rivers, so this really limits you.

    Overall: I feel like France is fairly limited by their UA - it basically forces them to go for a culture victory. The chateau is supposed to synergize with that I suppose, but it's such a useless building at the moment it's hardly worth building. I suspect France will fall somewhere in the mid-tier when the chips are counted.
     
  20. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    Remove the religion number limit and keep the great prophet cost locked to 60 points for the first 100 turns or so
     

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