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Opinions on the "AI"

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bdemz, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There is no brain behind Watson either, just mechanics.
    The reason I tear things apart is because I want to see their effect on the game. brain or no, it matters not, the game has mechanics that affect your play and understanding these I find useful for play as well as also being play unto themselves.
    I just found out that happiness affects city defense, that is useful and I also enjoyed its discovery
     
  2. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    This is not useful at all. Happy city or unhappy AI has no chance to take human's city in base game. Nor AI city has any chance to stand against competent human attack. Therefore your findings are mere curiosity in single player game context.
     
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  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It was my bad ... turned out to be a district ... damn.... However it would be useful in the MP game if it was true it would be useful in an SP game because looting a lux before attack may have given your troops less damage.
     
  4. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    My point is in unmodded base game I dont need this mechanics to win the game. I know you dont believe others saying they never lost a game on any difficulty but this is the sad fact. I never been even close to losing with this game without mods (my own mods actually). Base game is so silly you dont need to know all this nuisances you are so keen on. This is my point.
     
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  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Agreed and understood. Just do not assume that everyone feels the same way. You used the word I a lot and that's great. It is when you use the word you that your point is lost.

    But here you call me Naive and silly which to me is just a reflection on yourself for assuming we all feel the same way. It is in fact a little rude to me. What if I am not as clever as you, and cannot win. What if I do not care about winning and just enjoy playing the game and rarely finish them. Does that make me Naive and silly?

    Judge not, lest ye be judged
     
  6. unpossible251

    unpossible251 Warlord

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    reporting back with some r+f playthroughs after promising myself to stop save spamming.

    wow, i lost. i lost bad.

    most memorable was me as the Dutch. i got off to a good start, with my scouts stealing two workers and a settler off Gengis and some early trade route and improvement pillages. this snagged me harvest panthenon and a few nice cities.

    i also got pyramids and a religion, thank you magnus. i expanded into some nice flat seaside territory that would have made amazing polder spam.

    The Kahn then took my city state, and i rather rashly declared on him during the subsequent emergency. big mistake.

    i must have spammed at least ten spearmen, but could not hold back the angry mongol hordes with high visibility. 6 flattened cities later, learned a valuable lesson.

    and this was only emperor! the shame...

    now the AI made some dud calls. Gengis could have taken my capital five turns sooner but seemed fixated on chasing my spearmen through the hills rather than take my city. plus, there was the stolen workers and settlers thing, which was both my luck and his dumb.

    but, a loss is a loss, and it stings particularly in medieval. I've also recently walked away from a dead end game with Chandrapuga. my Korea game is shaping up nicely though.

    final message to firaxis? patch in a hardcore mode. see who's laughing after they gotta play realistic.

    oh and another idea for a realistic mod? a hotseat version where human players only get ten turns before they "die of old age" and have to pass on the game to another human, for ten turns. and so on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  7. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    So the game is to find the rules that are not explained anywhere? I usually prefer to know the rules before playing a game.
     
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  8. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  9. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    Indeed. Discovery of "yEilds", exploration of broken diplomacy deals list, finding hidden rules (might be not rules at all - just another bug) and so on...
     
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  10. ZubieMaster

    ZubieMaster Warlord

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    I enjoyed your post, but I have to disagree with the conclusion. What I get from your post is it's good you learned not to cheat yourself when playing a single player game, but your experience does not mean other players abuse save game cheats, it only applies to you. Personally I agree with the so-called "bragging" by the better players here, as this game is ez-mode even for a bad player like me.

    One way to test this is to post the save at the time you declared on Gengis and see if the "bragging" players would have also lost like you. Unfortunately you may not have a save as you were trying to prove a point. But my advice would be don't save to cheat, but instead save so when things like this happen you can post it to the forum and let the better players teach you how they would have easily won your game. Instead of distrusting those "laughing", I suggest keeping an open mind to learning.
     
  11. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I think most of us are a bit more self aware than you give us credit for. We like to know how the various elements fit together both because we are interested in the game and want to understand it better, and so we can point out areas for improvement.

    The game is also quite playable and enjoyable in it's current form. There are tons of things I'd like to see changed in order to improve how much I enjoy it, including seeing the difficulty of winning on deity increased, but it is a coherent game right now. Flawed, yes, but still coherent.


    There's an important message here for people who find the game ridiculously easy: it's not that easy for everyone, and possibly not even for the majority. This may partially explain why the development team isn't as focused on the quality of the AI as I think it should be.

    @unpossible251 your premise that other people only find the game simple because they save spam, though, is inaccurate, I believe. I've never reloaded a game of Civ 6 even once because I didn't like an outcome.


    I find this one of the most annoying aspects of Civ 6.
     
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  12. eleven11

    eleven11 Warlord

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    I think the AI is passable for most of the game save for Industrial on. It is absolutely horrible late game. Most don't even field an attempt at a victory condition save for the random captured capital and religious spam. I think I've had one Culture game in 1000 hours where I had an AI actively recruiting culture great people. Wow, a trade partner for great works and artifacts, finally!

    I guess it doesn't matter because if I wanted I could just steam roll the map because they don't field units. 8 Ages mods help with this though... so I've numbed the pain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  13. MaryKB

    MaryKB Goddess Queen Supporter

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    I feel like I am playing a different game than you are! In most of my games the computer players are absolutely working really hard on their space race projects. :)
     
  14. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Ayy, Vicky Vicky... I count 4 "you"s in your anti-"you" sentence... :D

    Truth is, the human brain is the most beautiful judgement machine known in the universe. Honestly, I hate when people use the "don't judge" argument, because to me it sounds like they are asking me "don't use your brain"...
     
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  15. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Are they really? By that point, I'm concentrating my production in my space port city through the use of trade routes, working exclusively on space race projects in that city, and researching exclusively techs that lead to the required space race projects.

    I don't think the AI is as focused. If they were, they should be able to complete the space race far faster than they do, it seems to me. But I could be wrong.


    I think what they're asking is to use the part of my brain that recognizes that my "reality" is not everyone's "reality" and my circumstances are not everyone's circumstances. "Walk a mile in their shoes" to use the old expression so aptly distorted by the Civ 6 quote. :)
     
  16. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    No problem. You destroy ALL their spaceports with correctly promoted spies without ANY opposition whatsoever. One of my points/examples about how this AI does not use all the systems in the game, which creates a huge imbalance in favor of the player that no amount of ridiculous bonuses can compensate.

    I know what they mean, but the argumentation may not be correct. Ask me to not deliver my mental judgement because "Walk a mile in their shoes", "politeness" and all, and I agree with that. Or else, we would go at each others throats all the time (wait, isn't that what we humans do best...?). Anyways, wouldn't it be better to just say "reserve your judgement for yourself", instead of asking me to stop using my judgement machine (which everyone has and uses, by the way...).

    Anyways, back to civ6 AI, the most imperfect judgement machine in the known universe... :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2018
  17. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I think there's a distinction between forming a judgement I don't express and actually not judging because I recognize I don't have the information required to judge fairly, but we're well into the realm of psychology here. We're also very close to the point where my wife asks me what I'm thinking and I say "nothing" and she says "that's not possible, you have to be thinking about something" and I say "nope, really not".

    So yes, I will happily return to Civ 6 :)
     
  18. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    One last comment because this is fascinating: I don't think there is a "no judgement" moment, or mode, in our brains. It evolved as a judgement machine for thousands of years, and in fact, as far as I know, evolved exactly in the direction you refer to; it specialized in judging with incomplete information.

    Or else, we would be dead.

    (I swear, this was the last one... back to the thread's topic, please don't trigger my fascination with intelligent comments anymore or we will seriously derail this thread :D)
     
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  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This is incorrect. I have played games like @MaryKB says, one the other day India had about 15 cities and 12 spaceports, they both use defensive spies and repair spaceports.
    One suspects some of the games you are referring to are a couple of patches old.
    There are plenty of threads through the forum about close games both won and lost so some highlighted words that are incorrect do not make me look bad.
    Caps are just unnecessary, one is allowed to use you's for emphasis of a point.about using you's and I was not discussing how they need to feel about things.
    It just makes for unpleasant discourse to put up with this. I think we just fell out again.

    You were really thinking, oh god, not this again, no answer will be right.
     
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  20. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Well, let's not... but please stop stating that what I post as my experience with the game is incorrect. It was a couple of weeks ago, not patches. Why would you just not accept it? Do I have to make myself a youtuber for you to believe what I state? It does not make sense; why would I lie? I won the game exactly like that, as I posted many times before. Just accept the possibility that I might be telling the truth, even if you don't like it.

    As for the specific experience, I have never seen a spy stop one of mine's... I wish I could see that. I don't know why you experience this, and I don't. Is it perhaps the combination of spy promotions and espionage cards I use? I don't know. I see them repair their spaceports, but not fast enough to stop my spies. Honestly. In cases like yours, I have at least 2 spies as "spaceport bash" promoted as possible, roaming the world in search for active spaceports, giving priority to the most advanced civs, and a max promoted defensive spy in my only spaceport working under the umbrella of Magnus in a centralized industrial powerhouse. It has worked for me in all cases. Try it and you shall see.

    The only other explanation is that we are playing different games, but I don't know how and why.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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