Optimizing the HRE civ's strengths

[IronicBuddha]

HRE is a peaceful REXing monster, The rathus really helps optimize the imperialistic trait of Charlemagne, Protective has use in the gunpowder era, but in early game it is essentially useless.

 

[GeneralGab]

The rathaus has a big impact on corporation fees: they're 50% lower compared to a city with a courthouse (-75% maintenance compared to -50%). So, depending on city size / map size, you can actually run Sid's Sushi (for example) at a net profit.

In my last game, (Small map / Normal speed), Sushi's was costing 37 in maintenance in my largest city, which gets cut in half, so 18.5, while generating 12 in the HQ, for a -6.5 in expense. With a rathaus, that would have been 37*0.25 = -9.25 in maintenance, for 2.75 net profit. This means you can spam corporations throughout your empire, get all the benefits and run a profit. (Though the number of resources and city size affects corporation fees; so it's not guaranteed you'd run a profit in all your cities)

 

[DutchJob]

1. Take Polytheism as your first research goal. Eighty percent of the time on all difficulty levels Prince and up on a normal sized map with seven opponents, this will give you Hinduism. If you play on lower difficulties your chances are better; if you play on bigger maps with more opponents they're worse. But you always have a good chance, though no guarantee.

2. After getting Polytheism, Bronze Working, and Archery, research Priesthood and build the Oracle. Chop as necessary. While building the Oracle, research Writing. Make sure you get Writing before you finish the Oracle; finish the Oracle as soon after that as possible. Get OB treaties with all civs you've encountered as soon as you get Writing! Take CoL as your free tech, this will give you Confucianism. I have never had this fail.

Even if you get Hinduism in step 1, playing as the HRE you still want to do step 2, because it opens your UB. Also, two religion shrines are better than one. Choose which of the religions to adopt as SR (or a third one founded by someone else) for diplomatic advantage, naturally.

Isn't it a better approach to skip Poly. and go asap to CoL? You want that as quickly as possible anyway?

peace.

 

[Iranon]

The only alternative to Polytheism for fast CoL is Meditation, which is inferior in a number of ways. Going via Currency takes far longer.

***

One thing though... too many religions might be a bad idea; collecting too many can mean the difference between heated warfare and a lovefest on a continent far, far away. I far prefer the former.

 

[Supr49er]

Charlemagne has one of the best UB/UU combos in the game, even if his traits aren't the best, they are still playable.

 

[DutchJob]

Charlemagne has one of the best UB/UU combos in the game, even if his traits aren't the best, they are still playable.

but the starting techs...

every game with charly just seems soo much longer to get on tempo.

or i just suck.

peace.

 

[mystyfly]

REX with imp, protect your large empire with protective archers, get some GGs while defending (great if you have the GW), recover your crushed economy with the rathaus (and espionage if you got the GW). Enlarge your empire with Landsknecht and protect it till you win space or go on warring until you hit dom. I don't see any trouble in finding synergies there. sylvanllewelyn, you said you don't see synergies, and you start with saying imp and pro are weak traits. That may be true but has nothing to do with synergies.

edit: just read some more posts here, I nearly completely agree with diamondeye

 

[Diamondeye]

I nearly completely agree with diamondeye

Yay! Can I put that in my sig?

No, seriously, there are lots of synergy in HRE. Unfortunately, the AI is one of the especially crappy kinds.

 

[mystyfly]

I think that two things matter in making a leader a *strong* one. One is abilities (traits, UU, UB) and the other is synergy. While lizzy (fin/philo) is strong traitwise, has a great UU and decent UB, there are no real synergies... I mean sure the stock exchange helps but it isn't strong in a special situation (or strategy). And the traits support economy while the UU should be used in offense.
Charlie is *weak*. You don't get those obvious edges vs the AIs (a non-financial leader must be crappy, mustn't he? ) but with all that stuff he has put together forms a leader that is very well-suited for a certain style of play (REXing in this case mainly).

 

[Gurra09]

I'm always playing as Justinian I of HRE (with Unrestricted Leaders) because I then got my favorite empire with my favorite leader. Spiritual and Imperialistic is for me the best traits and I always build many cities so Rathaus combined with Imp trait is very good. Charlemagne is also Imperialistic but I like Spiritual better than Protective.

In the Civilopedia there are a strategy for HRE and it says that HRE is the best medieval empire.


Gurra09

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Best medieval empire, of course. Castles for protection and trade routes, trebuchets, UU that rocks medieval combat... the problem is with the same amount of effort, I could go renaissance and beat the snot out of you with muskets and curaissers. Why develop your medieval power if you can advance to the next age, especially when

- corporations is when the rathaus really shine
- protective works best with gunpowder units

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I think the HRE seems to be ideal for continuous expansion

1. Imperial Settlers+Protective Archers

2. Rathous to allow empire to become productive

3. Trebs+Landsnecht +HorseArchers/Crossbows/Longbows to invade Anyone up till gunpowder. And Castled/Protective Bows to defend aquisitions.

4... By the time you are at Gunpowder you should have a massive empire... if not you failed... but you still have Protective Gunpowder units and Cheap Corporations [and probably a great Military prodution city from the GGs]

 

[mystyfly]

Best medieval empire, of course. Castles for protection and trade routes, trebuchets, UU that rocks medieval combat... the problem is with the same amount of effort, I could go renaissance and beat the snot out of you with muskets and curaissers. Why develop your medieval power if you can advance to the next age, especially when

- corporations is when the rathaus really shine
- protective works best with gunpowder units

This has exactly nothing to do with the discussion here.

BTW if you play marathon and you want to go to war, you can't just wait for cuirassiers. And if you want to win militarily before the 17th century, you'll have to go to war before the renaissance era.

 

[mudphud]

Best medieval empire, of course. Castles for protection and trade routes, trebuchets, UU that rocks medieval combat... the problem is with the same amount of effort, I could go renaissance and beat the snot out of you with muskets and curaissers. Why develop your medieval power if you can advance to the next age, especially when

- corporations is when the rathaus really shine
- protective works best with gunpowder units

I'm trying to figure out your point. Of course the medieval period won't last forever but if you beeline engineering you should have a while to use your medieval strength before gunpowder is discovered and if you wait to attack until then you have less of an advantage. You do have the benefit protective gives gunpowder but I don't see that as strong as the UU. When gun powder comes along a lot of other civs get their UU. You may not actually win in the medieval period but you can take some nice land to strengthen your position.

As for corporations, they don't come until a long time after the medieval period.

Of course many factors in each game influence when you go to war but if you want to utilize the HRE's military strength you have an advantage if you beeline engineering and pump out the UU.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If you're not playing top difficulties (This should work at least up to monarch and maybe higher, but my limit in general is Monarch atm), then try this:

1. Oracle slingshot Code of Laws after initial expansion.
2. REX like hell. Whip out courthouses. Run any economy you want, because charlie isn't better at one or the other.
3. Tech Engineering + trade for horseback riding or feudalism.

Note: CoL sling is probably harder at highest levels, so you might have to wait a bit longer.

What does this give you? You'll be slightly behind in tech, bigger than usual, and, well, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BEATS YOU UNTIL GUNPOWDER, which you can counter by gradually getting to guilds, because knights will protect your stacks from muskets NP. Then the enemy needs grenades, cannons, or rifles to field ANYTHING that can beat a stack of the HRE UU covered by knights.

Oh yeah, engineering unlocks trebs along with your UU. Kill kill kill. By the time your stuff obsoletes, you should be HUGE (unless you're isolated or have minimal land to work with even killing enemies). Huge, and not broke because you whipped out courthouses that basically eliminate 75% of those costs. Good synergy with FP here, because once you've got enough courthouses, well, you can drop the FP in a fairly distant city and kill the distance penalties a lot too.

If nothing else, you can REX and get away with it easily. -25% maintenance cost is pretty huge, as is having easy access to CG 3 units in the middle ages. Your land will not easily be taken back...

Another Note: Massed courthouses lend themselves to espionage. I recommend using some spies to take some techs off the leader. You might even be able to broker them, but if not you won't fall behind as much.