Optional thing to do in GOTM IX

[Matrix]

I would like as many people as possible to print the attached Excel file (2 pages), fill it in during the playing of the game and send it to my along with your savegames when you're ready. The thing you have to do then is to write down your score at every turn. Just before you hit enter, press F9 first.

I've done it before and in the beginning it might be tedious but at a certain time you get used to it. Only I did that during a GOTM and I didn't finish that one (GOTM IV) so I also quit the scoring tracking.

But first of all it's just fun to see your score progress afterwards. Secondly it would be fun to compare those. I mean, I can just plot it in one graph. Thirdly, it could be very handy to analyse the scoring system, if anyone is still interested to talk about that.

Anyway, information can't hurt...

By the way: I said "print it", but you may also just have Excel on the background and fill in the numbers directly in there. But in my experience it's easier to have a piece of paper next to you instead of Excel on the background.

 

[Smash]

If you make it mandatory..well...it would sure make me wanna finish ASAP

did I mention I hate Excel:rocket:

 

[Matrix]

Sorry Smash, but the whole GOTM is being calculated using Excel.

Anyway, the further you are in the game, the less trouble it is. But thanks for doing it Smash.

Anyone else? It's really kind of fun to see your score progress...

 

[kundor]

If we do not have Excel, would you like a text file of turns and scores or would that be too mcuh trouble to input and you'd rather have nothing at all?

 

[starlifter]

Hey, that's a cool idea, Matrix! You're a surgeon with Excel, and it would be nice to see plots of score vs. time/game turn.

You may need to try a log function to scale the results in the plot, or have a close up of the early years, and a wide angle of the entire range.

Will it help make it easier just to input the numbers directly into the Excel? I usually have a notepad open to type log notes as I play anyway, so I can open Excel and put in the scores, too.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by kundor
If we do not have Excel, would you like a text file of turns and scores or would that be too mcuh trouble to input and you'd rather have nothing at all?

Anything! Doesn't matter how I get it. I've made a text file which you can print. It just contains the dates, so you can fill in the scores behind it. You may ven post if you like (convensional mail).
Kooisingel 16
9753 EX Haren GN
Netherlands
(Not that I think that anyone will do that...)

Just don't think I'm going to play the game for you? (Who'd ever want that anyway?)

 

[Chofritz]

I've got a few problems:
1. Already started
2. I can't run excel and civ 2 at the same time I just found out, my computer crashes,
3. I have no printer

However I could fill in the score from all the saves I have (which is quite many scince my comp crashes quite often, ).
Is that ok?

 

[Matrix]

Chofritz, starlifter, as I said: anything. So starlifter may use Notepad instead of Excel en chofritz may send the scores he has. It would just be better if you had the scores of every turn, but better this than nothing at all...

 

[starlifter]

Chofritz, starlifter, as I said: anything. So starlifter may use Notepad instead of Excel en chofritz may send the scores he has.

LOL, I think my English wording was bad .

I was saying that I planned to just input the data directly into Excel 2000, instead of an e-mail, notepad, GIF, or whatever... it sounded like that would be of more help for making your charts. And since I already have about 10 programs open (including Notepad), I'll just open Excel, in addition to notepad! No problem.

(BTW, I presume you can read Excel 2000 format.)

by Chofritz,

2. I can't run excel and civ 2 at the same time I just found out, my computer crashes

That's usually a Microsoft issue, BTW. Unless you are handy with the Registry and know about some very technical details (which I won't ramble on about here), you may not be able to run Excel and Civ II reliably, depending partly on the OS and patches you have applied.

 

[Smash]

Guess what was on my desktop after I quit my first session of #9?(200s ad)

A pristine copy of the txt file above..oops.I knew remembering to fill it in would be difficult for me..but I figured I make it 1 turn at least

dam it! I like graphs too

 

[shadowdale]

Well Matrix I think it's a really cool and good idea - and even though I wasn't planing on playin ganymore GotM's - and I won't finish #8 I think that I'll give this one a shot - I normally don't talk about my games, mostly because I have no idea what to say but this makes it a lot easier - I won't ahve a problem with just writing down a number every turn and it will give everybody a good messure of how the do in the game - all the way!

But since I still don't really have the time to do this I will have to play a green game I think - but who knows I'll see what happens........

 

[Matrix]

So, how's it going, guys?

I'm at 1907 AD and forgot to write down the scores for about 3 times, so that's not too bad. I've guessed what my number of pionts would be. Only I'm not a really good Civ player and I've seen that my GOTM score is only going down. I'm only developing right now and have about half the world for the quite some time now. I'm just in the industrial age - I've received Industrialization through the Great Library , but that's because the Egyptians stole railroad - but I'm just trying to develop as fast as possible. Ofcourse I've closed the narrow pass in the east of my empire.

But I wonder whether I would've had a higher GOTM score if I tried to conquer the world faster, then what I will have now. My GOTM score is slowly decreasing... But if I tried to conquer the world fast, I wouldn't have had as much points as I had now on the moment the conquest was done. I hope you understand what I mean. Imagine I would have conquered the world in 1500 AD and my score would have been...100. But with the development I've had now I had 180 points at 1500 AD, only I haven't finished the game. I still have the savegame of 1, 1000 and 1500 AD, so I could always try out what's best. Though ofcourse I'm going to use the game I'm playing now as my 'real' score.

Anyway, at the beginning my score was increasing exponential (or squared), but now it seems to be lineair. I hope that'll change when I'm able to use WLTPD effectively.

By the way: next time I'm just going to save every turn! Stormerne did that too once...

 

[starlifter]

I'm at 1907 I forgot to write down the scores for about 3 times,

I have been recording both the population and score in my Nopepad log as the 1st 2 entries. With that, I also noted just when the Empire Unhappiness penalty began. It was a pain at first, but with cut and past and repetition, it does not add too much time per turn, esp. if you are usually making a comment anyway.

But I wonder whether I would've had a higher GOTM score if I tried to conquer the world faster, then what I will have now.

LOL, you should know your system rewards speed . I generally don't worry about GOTM scores till the end of the game, but I can say your SQRT function should push the tail of the GOTM scoring curve down with respect to time.

By the way: next time I'm just going to save every turn!

For small maps and/or "fast" (like Warlord) games in particular, people should also submit a 2000 BC save. Maybe just have a 1500 BC savegame in all games, e.g. a 1500BC, 1AD, 1000AD, and 1500AD. BTW, the 1500BC save is always highly compressible when zipped, so it won't add much to filesizes.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by starlifter
LOL, you should know your system rewards speed . I generally don't worry about GOTM scores till the end of the game, but I can say your SQRT function should push the tail of the GOTM scoring curve down with respect to time.

Does this mean you approve?

Originally posted by starlifter
For small maps and/or "fast" (like Warlord) games in particular, people should also submit a 2000 BC save. Maybe just have a 1500 BC savegame in all games, e.g. a 1500BC, 1AD, 1000AD, and 1500AD. BTW, the 1500BC save is always highly compressible when zipped, so it won't add much to filesizes.

Perhaps, but it also gives more burden to the players. And it's also only nescessary when there are 570 turns max. I'm not gonna change the date with every new GOTM...

 

[starlifter]

Does this mean you approve?

LOL, hey dude, you are the engine that makes the GOTM work. All I ask in general is a good chance for input from eveyone ahead of time (including of course, me, LOL!). You've decided a few thing I'd have done differently, and a whole lot that I'd have done the same. But once you decide, then it also meets with my own approval, FWIW.

As I've said many times before, I'll play under almost any set of rules. In general, though, I like the Republican approach... regulate what really must be done, and let the rest flow.

So yes, your formula changes are fine with me.

In fact, speaking as a high scorer, I would not mind a GOTM here and there that had a special set of rules, like bloodlust with no irrigation allowed at all (and no airfields in a city radius). That ought to shake up the "high scoring establishment", for those that would like to see a war game.

Here is another idea for a single GOTM (not for every one, though):

Emperor level, bloodlust. But.... Your population score in 1000 AD is used for the Population part of the GOTM score, no matter what happens in the rest of the game!

Thus, there is no need to worry about long years of farming... it wil not help the score past 1000 AD. But all the other elements of the score can still be increased, like Wonders, peace, etc. This is quite different than a Cap, because the player is free to pursue the game to whatever population limit they wish... up to 1000 AD.

The disadvantage to this is that it would require additional Admin work to compute, plus players would have to input 2 separate numbers into a special spreadsheet function that you'd make to determine the score: The 1000 AD popluation score (a fixed number, once 1000 AD is reached), the current year score (add all but the population part).

This game would strongly limit late game farming, without eliminating the late game or placing an arbitrary cap limit. The key is that the game turn must be matched for the level/map size. You want to pick a game Turn in the 150 to 200 range, and translate that to a given year. At Emperor, Game Turn 150 is 1000 AD.

Hope that made sense. It is not hard, not arbitrary, yet makes the high scorers either crap (early), or get off the pot. And the tedium of a long game is made irrelevant.

Good job, Matrix. You're the GOTM MVP!

 

[Matrix]

I think we shouldn't use too weird rules; it makes it too controversial. There would be too many people who will believe that that's an absurd thing to do.

But actually there's another reason why I wanted to post in this thread.
It's amazing how polynomial the score is increasing! I used a polynomial trendline and R squared is 0.9812!! I hope very much it's the same with you. I knew it would be either exponential or polynomial, and it appears to be the last one...

Oh, and another thing: I've also noted the division of the score: how many points there are through population, achievements, barbarians (that varies much ), peace and pollution. I bet you'll find it very interesting. But I won't show it until I'm done with the game.

 

[Matrix]

And here it is. The last jump in my score was because I suddenly started attacking and before I knew it I had the whole world except for one city. Then I raised luxuries but my score didn't grow much more by that and also because I just wanted to finish the game I bought the last Egypian city. This last jump made the polynom correlate less. That only works for a self-sufficient developing empire.

Now I'm very curious to your developments!! I know that I will do this again next time!

 

[Smash]

How hard would it be make something to automate this?

Would it be possible to extract the score each turn?

I know you can make something to save each turn and archive automatically.

Maybe I should ask the propeller heads in tech support.

a .bat perhaps.An applescript would work for mac I think.

Something like:
save/retire/record year and score

too bad it wasn't that easy to write

 

[Bed]

i have seen this post only today

too bad i finished the GOTM9 yesterday

maybe for GOTM10 i'll do that, good idea to see the progression of others players compared to self(i saw the savegames of the winners of the last GOTM and i amm really impressed by the beginings of shadowdale!! for exemple in GOTM4!!!)

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

Oh, bloody hell. Out of all the GOTMs for you to make your comeback, Shadowdale, you had to choose this one eh? Well, with starlifter around too that means 1st and 2nd spots are taken.

I'm not up on who else's been winning lately, but I figure I'll be at around 10th...

btw Matrix, I've already finished too. But I've about 15 saves, so I'll submit those scores at least.

Oh, as for starlifter's suggestion: I kind of like the 'weird rule' challenges personally. My own suggestion--maybe simpler to implement than starlifter's--is to end tech research after, say, Industrialization. Then it's a matter of boosting pop. only as much as you can without supermarkets or airfields. It only takes a few extra turns compared to the full score-building process.

Actually that's kind of what I did for this game.