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Oracling tech.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by lasombra1984, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Chieftain

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    What tech is better to Oracle on your opinion:
    Aesthetics, Code of Laws, Metal Casing, Monarchy or Theology.
    Please don't post about Feudalism, CS, Machinery etc. because it is too difficult to achieve)
     
  2. BigTime

    BigTime Chieftain

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    There isn't exactly a poll posted with the thread ;). but.....

    The best tech that you can reasonably get on higher levels is usually Civil Service or Philosophy.
     
  3. lasombra1984

    lasombra1984 Chieftain

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    I've edited thread)
     
  4. Riflin'Joe

    Riflin'Joe Chieftain

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    It just depends on what your overall goals are.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    What difficulty do you play lasombra? CS can be attainable on levels as high as Emperor. On Noble I often Oracle Education or even Liberalism.

    But generally, yes, there are certain techs that are usually targets in the timeframe of building Oracle. However, what you take is situational and should align to your goals or present situations. I'd say the general top three choices are CoL, Monarchy and MC. Monarchy is always nice for the instant happiness, but if you have decent happiness resources are whatnot it could be traded for easily later. CoL is very valuable for many reasons. Obviously, the religion and then CHs and also Caste System civic, especially if you are Philo. MC is great on coastal maps for early Colossus and also a top choice for IND to get in early forges and possibly an early Great Engineer. I generally always shoot for that with Qin to get up Chokes quickly.

    However, there are many other options as well if it suites your strategy. If you have ivory you could got use it on Construction to get up some Phantapults early. Theology if you want to control the AP. Heck, even Currency would not be a bad choice since it's overall a very important tech with good trade value.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    The easies:

    Monarchy: Not a big draw but if you're just whoring wonders ASAP and this is the only way to fit oracle...still probably not ideal

    Horseback Riding: Luls. Not recommended though IND can make it kind of cute. Still probably not optimal.

    Maths: Not bad at all, maybe even a little underrated. If you're going for wonders getting stronger chops ASAP helps. This also gives you a chance at hanging gardens with stone or IND. Math isn't the best trade bait ever but it can still be quite strong.

    Alphabet: Well, if nobody has it and you've met like 5-6 AI then you can probably do something with it.

    Aesthetics: Boost if you have the resources for the wonders as it's decent trade bait too.

    Code of Laws: Not bad for those continents where it becomes obvious there won't be any non-human religion. Also sets up some very early spec fun so this has some potential.

    Metal Casting: Big bonus points on maps where colossus is good. It's also a valuable tech in raw beakers and decent trade bait. For IND the easy-access forges are a nice draw too. HUGE bonus points if you have or can trade for at least 2 of the luxury resources forges boosts (IND + gems/gold/silver through settlement or trade + oracle MC is ridiculously good).

    Theology: If APcheese is your thing this is the single best target. Enjoy your auto-win. Not bad for putting religion on a continent without it either but if you're going here you are probably going for the AP.

    Higher: Just so you know, people have attained strong oracles like CS and machinery on high levels. This is especially a consideration if you have a strong commerce start like 2x gems or some such nonsense.

    Which is best? The answer to that varies wildly based on land, nearby AI, resources available, overall strategy, etc.
     
  7. xenex

    xenex Chieftain

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    For me monarchy and Theology are never chosen.There is just not enough games where monarchy is that important to oracle and Theology I usually never get, unless in a late trade.I don't AP as often either so less incentive for me.

    Aesthetics I usually tech myself for trading.

    The times when I want metal casting building the oracle isn't that useful, so I just go the hard way and tech it.

    So its either CoL and sometimes CS.
     
  8. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    CoL - best choice of all IMO.

    You can switch to caste system, run a bunch of scientists and bulb philo ( get meditation first ), then switch to pacifism ( select a religion too ) run some merchants and get a GM, then from there sometimes I'll bulb MC / CS / machinery / guilds, depending on what other techs I have at the time.

    Theology? You can just wait for the dumb GP to pop from the oracle and bulb that.

    Monarchy? The AI gets that so quick its laughable, you can trade for it by waiting a few turns. Are you really at happy cap that fast?

    Aesthetics? This tech is only good as trade bait and getting to other techs. No immediate use unless you're building the wonders.

    Metal casting is sometimes a good choice maybe if you're doing a Xbow rush or building the Collossus or have some other good reason.


    You can consistently oracle feudalism ( around 2500 BC ) on deity if you have a water start with a leader who starts with both fishing + mining and have a few hills and at least 2 seafood. I've done it many many times, problem is you only have about 1 town ( maybe 2 if you're lucky ) and by the time you can get enough longbows out to do a rush the AI has too many units.

    Machinery and CS are longshots though.
     
  9. Fluroscent

    Fluroscent Chieftain

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    Currency deserves mention. Only slightly more demanding than CoL. And if you know a lot of AI, it can be worth huge sums of money through trade routes + gold trades. It is often the top choice, more so than any other tech (except when CS sling or better is possible).
     
  10. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    The problem with currency is math. If you're going to research a 400+ beaker tech before oracle then you might as well research monarchy and pick feudalism.

    CoL only needs writing.

    I'm not sure if the AI will have a lot of gold to trade that early either.
     
  11. Fluroscent

    Fluroscent Chieftain

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    Alphabet also works. And it can be used to backfill BW and even sometimes trade up to Priesthood -> Chop Oracle. Of course you need a strong start to do it, but when do you build Oracle without one anyway?
    And why would you choose Feudalism over Currency anyway?
     
  12. City Raider

    City Raider Chieftain

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    I normally pick CoL b/c its a useful tech no matter what style you play and doesn't really take much thought to get it.

    That said, I've done CS a couple times on Emp and thought I'd break it down a bit. It is kinda more doable then I originally thought.

    This is Emperor/Epic so beaker totals and time frame will reflect that. You essentially have 100 turns to get it (1500bc). 110-120 turns can be a real crap shoot from my experience.

    You need 8 definite techs (beaker totals)

    Agr - 140
    AH - 234
    Writing - 281
    Myst - 117
    Med - 187
    Priest - 140
    Math - 585
    CoL - 819

    That's 2503 beakers and at an avg of 20 beakers per turn is 125 turns. Now you should be bulbing Math so that cuts you down to 1918 beakers and ~96 turns. This is doable and hopefully you'll start with either Agr or Myst. But realistically you'll want Mining as well for Gems, Gold, or Silver so its kind of a wash (maybe you start with it) or worst case its only another 117 beakers (5-6 turns). You may need wheel too for chariot defense or to hook up your resources for happy cap help, but there is a good chance you'll start with some variation of Agr, Mine, Wheel, Myst so it doesn't add too much to beaker totals.

    Incidently one of the best to try this with is the Inca, they start with Agr and Myst and have a great starting unit.

    If you start with Mining you might be able to get BW, for whipping chopping of Library or an additional settler with a really good commerce start.

    I think my best case was a second city that had two Golds. I got out a second settler after my Library and worked the Golds with specialists in the Cap to get Col in a decent amount of time, bulbed Math, and then picked CS.

    Second cities can also help with a specialist/science if you get the library up quick enough there.

    You just need Writing early enough to build the Lib and runs two specialists for 25 turns (non Phil) or 13 (Phil). Either way you should be good going Agr, AH, Mine, then Writing or Agr, AH, BW (if start with mine), then Writing.

    Worst case civs are those that start with Hunting and Fishing (Greece, Vikings) since you'll definitely need to research all the relavent techs.

    You'll need a couple really good commerce tiles or awesome food start (for scientists in multiple cities) and you'll probably need to find some gold via huts so the maintaince doesn't kill you too quickly.
     
  13. ABCDPuppies

    ABCDPuppies Chieftain

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    City Raider, nice analysis. However, I'm curious why you have AH listed as a necessary tech. Strictly you don't need it, as you can get writing through Priesthood.

    Perhaps you're thinking getting writing so late would make it tough to bulb math? If you were Philosophical, however, I wouldn't see it as an issue -- you should have more than enough time to build a library and pop a GS while teching CoL.

    Without Phil it would of course be trickier. If you had BW and could pre-chop the library perhaps it wouldn't slow you down too much, particularly when you factor in the time savings from skipping AH. It would be interesting to run some tests on this..
     
  14. City Raider

    City Raider Chieftain

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    Good point. Just missed that.
    I'm so used to making AH one of my first techs, I forgot Priesthood opens up Writing.
    Good catch.
     
  15. cracked

    cracked Wierdo.

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    Depends on two things: what resources you have and what civ you're playing.

    Resources:

    If you have precious metals: gold, gems, silver etc. Metal casting.

    If you have stone: Mathematics is nice for hanging gardens.

    If you have no happiness resources: Monarchy.

    Marble and/or gold: aesthetics is good. Shwadeygon Paya can help you adopt free religion or pacifism early.

    Code of laws: Handy if you're organised or if you're monty for their cheap courthouses. It can be a default chioice. Can be good with philosophical leaders.

    Metal casting: Really good if you're industrial.

    Horseback riding: I'd only really consider it with the carthaginians if I had horses.

    Others beyond that tend to be something of a fluke: You'd have strong enough commerce for them to be unnecessary.
     
  16. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    Double promotion longbow rush.
     
  17. vornan19

    vornan19 Chieftain

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    I normally go for CoL - get a religion, courthouses and a missionary to convert a neighbour.
     
  18. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    I prefer Metal Casting. Relatively easy, relatively expensive, good enough as trade bait, useful prerequisites and my typical problem in Civ4 is 'how to get more production in ways that don't suck'.
     
  19. Riflin'Joe

    Riflin'Joe Chieftain

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    I did an experimental Compass slingshot with Mao recently (plus GLH of course). It didn't suck, but perhaps wasn't the best either.
     
  20. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera Chieftain

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    That could open up some good tech trades nice and early, depending on the neighbors. And maybe some religion spread. It has possibilities, I like the spirit of it even if it isn't spectacular.
     

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