Order vs. Influence

[Flyboy1972]

I've played Civ 5 a total of 1000+ hours but can't get my head around why Happiness is lowered by 'wrong Ideology', how to control for it.

I know it's related to other civs' influence over mine, and if they have more influence AND a different ideology, my unhappiness grows. That makes a certain amount of sense.

But what can I do to counter those effects, at the later stages of the game?

I swear, it's made several otherwise excellent Immortal and a few Deity games unplayable at later stages of the game.

What am I missing?

My kingdom for a 'disable Ideology' option in the Advanced Setup menu...

 

[claudiupb]

The pressure comes from different levels of tourism generated, if they have a higher level they will generate pressure towards you. For example if someone with autocracy is at exotic level with you, and you (with order) are at unknown level towards him, you will get pressure for autocracy from that civ.

These levels are added for all other civs that have ideology, so you can get a lot of pressure. And get even more unhappiness.

The best way to counter it is to have a good culture output (so they will be no greater than exotic towards you), BUT also a good tourism output (so you are have at least exotic level towards them). Make sure that they do not successfully propose world ideology.

If nothing works, just build the ideology specific wonder, and after that switch ideologies. If you manage to get both ideology specific wonders it won't be such a big loss.

 

[Biologist]

Yeah, basically your culture/tourism output needs to be higher. You want enough culture to keep them from being dominant over you, and at least enough tourism to have a low level of influence over them.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

But what can I do to counter those effects, at the later stages of the game?

Win World's Fair + combine it with golden age; after 8 turn bulb 2-3 GWs = forget about unhappiness from ideology

 

[BruinBound]

The pressure comes from different levels of tourism generated, if they have a higher level they will generate pressure towards you. For example if someone with autocracy is at exotic level with you, and you (with order) are at unknown level towards him, you will get pressure for autocracy from that civ.

These levels are added for all other civs that have ideology, so you can get a lot of pressure. And get even more unhappiness.

I actually never completely understood it either until that explanation. It's so simple, thanks!

Win World's Fair + combine it with golden age; after 8 turn bulb 2-3 GWs = forget about unhappiness from ideology

I'm disappointed, I thought you would go with: "Win the game before any other civs pick an ideology"

 

[stormtrooper412]

Well he obviously can't speak for all of us innit

 

[beetle]

My kingdom for a 'disable Ideology' option in the Advanced Setup menu...

What are the instructions for starting a GnK game after upgrading to BNW?

Obviously, that would kill Ideologies and revert to the old CV. Presumably, the extra religious pantheons would disappear too. Would one be able to play the BNW civs (like Poland) in GnK that way? Does having installed BNW change the GnK game in any way?

 

[stormtrooper412]

Nope, Ideologies are an integral part of BNW. I struggle with the pressure but I managed to work around it

 

[dasaard200]

Another way to combat 'cultural pressure' is to kill off the 2 top culture leaders, build as many culture buildings in your cities as possible, and move those GWorks (looting) to YOUR cities as soon as slots to house then come available .

 

[MarauderCH]

It also helps to get your Ideology as the world Ideology.

 

[beetle]

Ideologies are an integral part of BNW. I struggle with the pressure but I managed to work around it

I agree, Ideologies add a very interesting dynamic to game. But I am grateful I played out GnK before going to BNW as I think I would have been overwhelmed. I am sympathetic to OP plea for wanting to take a break from them -- without playing at easier level.

So, how does a BNW owner revert to GnK play?

 

[stormtrooper412]

That's something I'd like to know. If I reverted to GnK now, I'd probably be very much lost

 

[Liegence]

Really? I like this system a lot. I think it adds another level of depth and consideration when playing at higher tiers.

On a side note, I sometimes wonder if the world was culturally dominated by autocratic nations would people living in freedom really be unhappy?

 

[Flyboy1972]

Great explanations and discussion folks. Thanks.

 

[reddishrecue]

In a way they would but freedom has many policies that make happy people and cover its revolutionary waves.

 

[Athenaeum]

I think the reason they included that feature is to give tourism more relevance to the game. Because even now, it seems like tourism has little relevance outside of winning a culture victory. Whereas having a lot of CS allies or being well ahead in science helps no matter what victory you're going for.

Yeah, I know more tourism makes captured cities spend less time in resistance and lose less pop, etc etc. But all-in-all you have to admit that it has less relevance outside of its specified victory type compared to other things.

 

[beetle]

I think the reason they included that feature is to give tourism more relevance to the game. Because even now, it seems like tourism has little relevance outside of winning a culture victory... But all-in-all you have to admit that it has less relevance outside of its specified victory type compared to other things.

You seem to be contradicting yourself? Tourism pressure and Ideology pressure are the same thing. Ideologies have a huge impact on diplomacy, and Ideology pressure (really tourism pressure) has a huge impact on your Global Happiness. So, yes, tourism is quite relevant to the game (outside of CV, and even the buff to domination). Since diplomacy and happiness are relevant for all victory types, tourism is as relevant as CS allies or being well ahead in science.

That said, I struggle much more with tourism than I do with CS allies or science!

 

[Athenaeum]

That's what I said, that without ideology pressure, tourism would have very little relevance outside of a culture victory.

Building Eiffel Tower helps to redeem poor early game tourism to a considerable extent. 10 turns (or 1 turn with GE) and bam, your tourism jumps 12.

I consider that a good wonder if you just want to keep your head above water in tourism for ideology purposes.

 

[vesp3r1987]

I was wondering why my status on ideology always showed "unhappiness" even though my ideology was "enforced" to be world ideology and i saw no pressure... however my tourism is always low as i usually ignore it and go full bully mode at that point using CS allies to influence the WC
That explanation really helped!

 

[stormtrooper412]

You can also leech more science and have more effective covert ops on civs that got eaten by your culture, though I'm yet to see that having a really significant effect on Deity