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Organic Food is Nutritionally Superior, Scientists Say

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    By nutrient I meant micronutrients not macronutrients & this is the common parlance, you're just trying to be annoying.

    No, not at all. Fries have a fairly high amount of empty calories while salad is plenty absorbable, especially with dressing. Do research.

    You're either a confused or just trolling.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrient_density

    I don't think there's a whole lot more for me to say here.
     
  2. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    Then say so! It might be common parlance for members of nutrition religions, but that's not the definition. It might be annoying to insist on proper terms, but for any serious discussion proper terms are indispensable.

    "empty calories" :lol: calories is just another of these misused words...

    No matter how much dressing you apply to a salad, you won't be able to digest cellulose. The micronutrient density shouldn't be that much different. Micronutrients per digestable energy would be a good term for the advantages of salad. Which leads directly to the next point:


    I'd laugh, if the scientist in me wasn't so offended. They probably mean micronutrients and use nutrients, but then link to the wikipedia article, which explains that the major nutrients are carbohydrates, fat and proteins. And who got the idea to define nutrient mass per energy (and those variables aren't even fully independent) as "density"? While you can define density as something else than function of a negative power of length, it usually only serves to confuse everyone.

    While I am sure that, there is some decent research being done in nutrition, once it reaches the general public it has been watered down to pseudoscience, almost like religions. It has its own jargon, using scientific terms, but not their definition. It got its rituals to get salvation from sickness. There is a lot of evangelism. Every few years, new sects appears. At the moment, "organic" food gets all the hype, who know what it is in five or ten years?
     
  3. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    Does its much higher cost justify its purchase however?

    I think I will continue buying non-organic stuff like I do and just keep taking my vitamins thanks.
     
  4. negZero

    negZero Emperor

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    I think you missed the joke there.

    No am not dodging this topic am just to busy to beat this topic to death right now maybe tomorrow.
     
  5. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    I knew it...
     
  6. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, we know that preparation can increase or decrease the bioavailability of micronutrients. Many of the nutrients in salads would be made more available if crushed with some oil. This is true of many vegetables and many vitamins.

    Now, obviously cellulose would remain as fibre (though fibre itself is an essential component of the diet these days), but Narz was referencing other vitamins.

    While the wikipedia article is not clear "nutrient density" is a commonly used term. It refers to how many calories you need to ingest in order to get a certain number of micronutrients or other health boosters. We obviously want to eat nutrient dense foods. This is why you'd eat sweet potatoes over regular potatoes, or why you'd keep the potato skins on, etc.
     
  7. Yeekim

    Yeekim Deity

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    You nailed it. /thread
     
  8. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    cracked. com refutes you and your "beliefs" about organic food.



    http://www.cracked.com/article_17084_5-ways-people-are-trying-save-world-that-dont-work.html
     
  9. SS-18 ICBM

    SS-18 ICBM Oscillator

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    Third time's the charm?
     
  10. negZero

    negZero Emperor

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    And I kept telling you after that it wouldn't and more studies say it couldn't.

    Good, that way I just need to use the data I used before to shot yours down once again.

    More food out of less land means topsoil run off since we use less water, fertilizers and well less everything.

    Well your the one with most experience pop culture "science" here :p

    Funny we have seen the predicted results in any population graphs yet

    Gives you the same amount of vitamins, cheaper and has less of chance of catching a disease.

    Organic food needs more fertilizer and land to grow an equal amount amount of crops in compared to its chemical brethren. Both of those things deplete top soil

    By the time you even handle the food most of the chemicals have been washed off

    And this different from what you do to the data we give you how? O wait I know cause simply ignore and wish it will go away.?? Publishing the results of new research is harmful?

    All the research on vaccines says your better off with them then you are without them, but this is off-topic.

    Yes they do or do you want me to prove that yet again.

    To quickly sum it up, it can't.
    Your right here, since organic can't feed the whole world's population even after we farm every inch of farmable land.

    Most of us know that by now, where just here making sure more people don't start believing in your dangerous ideas
     
  11. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    If you'd read the thread you'd see I already refuted that. If you don't feel like searching back in the thread just save time & read the references in the post below (from real news sources).

    Are you being silly deliberately? The whole point of organic is the it uses less everything.

    Conventional fertilizer must be created & bought at large environmental & economic cost, organic fertilizer is made.

    Also, research shows organic farming helps combat global warming but helping to fix more carbon in the soil.

    http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/ob_31

    Also, organic yields can be good or better than convential with proper technique. But you simply refuse to acknowledge any research that conflicts with what you decide to believe.

    From Reuters - Organic farming yields as good or better: study

    In some areas spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) have skyrocketed. Fertility problems are on the upswing bigtime and sperm counts are dramticly down (though eating organic can help somewhat). Be patient.

    If "most" is good enough for you.

    I'm open to all research (including dissenting opinions) but one has to take the source into account & also keep in mind conventional agri-business is huge. For example plenty of studies funded by the plastic industry show Bisphenol A is "perfectly safe" while independent studies generally show it is not.

    No sorry, you're wrong, see the article above. Just accept it, it's better for your health than clinging to unreality.

    I assume you've tried, eh? Again, your wild assumptions are unfounded.

    Dangerous, eh? The man suggest moving beyond fossil fuel driven agriculture before we are forced to (maximizing productivity & sustainable methods & combating climate change in the meantime)? Burn him!

    Organic can produce higher yields, it clearly can be more nutritious. You can handpick unproductive organic farms & say that the nutrient density isn't always higher but the point is not about the "average" organic farm, it's about maximizing productivity AND maintaining the natural systems that support us. It's a learning process that we need to constantly improve, you seem to be stuck it static beliefs saying "it's not possible". It's already been shown it is possible, we just have to make it the norm.

    We have to evolve & make organic better because organic is the future, fossil-fuel based pesticides & chemical fertilizers, we put far more fossil fuel energy into the soil than the yields we get from it, obviously this is not sustainable.

    http://www.energybulletin.net/node/5045

    It seems very clear you're just being contrary. You act as if there is a definitive answer to the organic question & the answer is that it is a doomed venture & want to close the book on it once & for all but that's not scientific, doesn't account for progress or even present research. I think the research I've presented (in this post alone) speaks for itself.
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Top soil is actually a really big concern, because all modern farming methods seem to deplete topsoil. We lose six bushels of soil for every bushel of grain we farm. The main causes of topsoil loss are herbicide use and tilling. Realisitically, a properly run farm should either gain or not-lose topsoil every year, or else it's not sustainable. Modern farming doesn't provide this.

    You'll see 'no till' farming mentioned more and more, since it's a great way of preventing erosion.
     
  13. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Pizza and Dr. Pepper for me, if you please. I dare anybody to come up with organic soda pop. :crazyeye:
     
  14. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I've had some, it was good.

    It's still soda though.
     
  15. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Organic is a scam that's been succesfully pushed into standard hippy behaviour.
     
  16. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I've seen what happens with people, who by nature of having serious illness, and subsequently seriously affected by environmental things like molds, perfumes, etc. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the difference between organic and inorganic foods is the difference between health and disease.
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Cracked is wrong for two reasons:
    1) they claim that we cannot sustainably feed the world's population using organic methods. It's sheer idiocy to think that unsustainably feeding the world's population is superior.
    2) most farmland is used to raise crops for meat production. Even if we needed to double the land necessary to produce organic crops, if we greatly reduced meat consumption, we'd need less land than we're currently using. It's not organic that's the problem, it's meat. Overwhelmingly
     
  18. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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  19. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    yeah, eating inorganic things probably is unhealthy.
     
  20. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    too easy, come on ;) All seriousness aside, there was a stark difference in health.
     

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