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Orion's Grand Inquisition

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by OrionVeteran, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    There is a special unit to help counter bribes: The Mine. A mine field will kill a diplomat easily. If you haven't researched mine warfare, then you can use the Immigrant. It will cost a lot more money to execute a bribe for each population point in a city. So bring in the Immigrants early to increase the population in a new city. On the diplomat side, you want to try and pick off those low population border cities before they get too big and it becomes cost prohibitive to execute a bribe.

    I will have to look into this more closely. Will get back to you.

    Ambush and Armor Piercing are cumulative. However, there is a counter promotion for Armor units: It is called Reinforced hull.

    We noticed the graphics issue for nuclear strike mission. Unfortunately, the SDK for a nuclear explosion will process much faster than the time it takes for the bomber aircraft to fly over the target. Not sure how to fix it. We considered it a minor annoyance to put up with. At least we have the strategic nuclear strike capability for bombers. I don't believe any other mod has this capability. Just one more reason to play OGI.

    Yes. You really have to think about which wonders you really need and which city they should be built in. The requirement for strategic planning by every player was definitely intentional. The difference between OGI and other mods is like playing chess instead of checkers.

    I'm looking at a couple of new leaders for possible inclusion in a future version.

    If you are referring to National wonders, then you can manually increase the limit to what ever you want by changing the default setting in the CIV4GlobalDefines.xml file.

    I will have to look into this more closely. Will get back to you.
     
  2. Pomphis

    Pomphis Warlord

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    I never thought of that.

    Very minor and a I really like the capability. But another idea for the future: maybe ICBMs should require their own tech ? That would increase the usefulness of nuclear bombers.
     
  3. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    Both ICBMs and Tactical nukes have their own tech: Fission. There are other requirements as well.
     
  4. Pomphis

    Pomphis Warlord

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    I know. My vague idea was that ICBMs are better strategic nukes than bombers, so once can build ICBMs, the big advantage of nuclear-capable bombers is that they can also be used conventionally. But you doesn´t really need the bombers to deliver nukes. So I thought about making nuclear bombers more important by delaying ICBMs (but not Tactical Nukes) to have a period of time (like OTL fifites) where nuclear bombers are simply necessary.
     
  5. Jennvare

    Jennvare Prince

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    Hey Orion,

    I'm back!

    Just started my first game of your new version and I came across the 'Endless Loop" where the game freezes on the AI's turn. I'm afraid I don't have much for logs or such, but I saved the game while the AI was frozen. Hopefully you can make heads or tails of it.

    Give you feed back when I start a new game if I can't salvage this one.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    Nice to hear from you again.

    The save file is totally corrupted and would not load. It reads: "Failed to uncompress game data. Load Failed." My suggestion is to go back a few rounds and play from there.

    Looking forward to it. Please check out the latest updates that are in progress for future version 3.06 on post 611.
     
  7. Pomphis

    Pomphis Warlord

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    My MGs and Miniguns don´t get XP from Vassalage. Is this intended ?
     
  8. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    Vassalage only provides +2 Experience points, which is not enough to receive a promotion. You will need a successful combat encounter or some kind of building that provides additional experience points.
     
  9. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    OGI's diplomatic mission number 5 gives the diplomat the capability to bribe :deal: a city to incite a revolt. It could be an expensive bribe, but it might be useful under the right circumstances.
     
  10. DavidCooke

    DavidCooke Warlord

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    Wow, this mod almost keeps me too busy to fight, so much stuff to build. I'm pretty impressed you have so many wonder movies and stuff.

    Issue: when I hover the mouse over a city or a plot, it tells me numbers for what the plot provides, but there are no icons by the numbers to say which is which. I have to turn on the map thing to show all the plot production, which kinda clutters the map, so I end up turning it on and off a lot.

    I'm only up to about 20 AD, just got Liberalism (first one there) on Monarch (dropped lots of oyster beds!!!).

    One of the AI civs circumnavigated around 600 BC, what's up with that???

    Why is the map so high NS and narrow EW? Can I adjust that in future games, and if so, how?

    I think the Krakens are a bit much. str 14 early on, and you cannot even build a fleet that strong? I had 4 of them around my island continent (shared with Attila and Hitler, OMG). I couldn't go anywhere but through them, took me a while. They still aren't dead, but I have my continent to myself now, and with Astronomy I just colonized an empty land mass. Just landed 3 armies next to Attila on a nearby big island.

    Dealing with armies with first strike is obnoxious. Chopping them down to size is tough, when they kill an attacking unit in one whack on a first strike.

    What's the deal with battering rams? Opponent had one in a city, and it kept getting "opportunity fire" on my army sitting outside besieging the city. I also saw one opportunity fire on my passing Pirate Barbary Corsair, that seems wrong. I could see a catapult doing that, but not a battering ram.

    I've tried using barrage to damage units inside cities, but every time I do I miss everything. Kinda odd, to barrage with 15 catapults, and hit nothing, in a city full of troops. :eek:

    You really need to add some documentation on unique game mechanics. For the life of me, I could not get my military instructor to form a 2nd army, even though I had 9 cities. Finally I marched him all the way back to the city in which I built him originally, and THEN he could make an army. That undocumented feature cost me hours and hours of time. Also, how many units can you put into armies from each era? A table sure would be nice.

    What is the relationship between the individual promotions on units, and any promotions an army may start with when it is formed?

    Is there a way to upgrade an army? I've attached great generals to a couple of mine, and I'd like to upgrade the units in the divisions.

    Why can cathedrals only be built under State Church? That is a very annoying restriction. I like lots of religions in my cities, and the unhappiness generated by non-state religions is kinda weird, at least to me.

    Oh. I've created lots of resources (like planting rice, wheat, etc). Is there a limit? These things are now greyed out to my workers. No requirement shows up when I hover the mouse over them, to tell me why I can't do them, which is troubling.
     
  11. Jennvare

    Jennvare Prince

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    I know about the building too much stuff bit. You almost have to, because if you don't, your enemy on the other side of the world is!

    That's actually pretty good, but it's also another issue I have with this. In the later stages, research becomes so quick, it's hard to build a modern army. When you build a unit, it's already obsolete because the tech cycles so fast! In the game I just finished, I launched the spaceship on turn 330!! I finished all the techs and two future techs by turn 345! This was on an epic game with 750 turns!

    Easy to do if you get a few caravels with navigation promotions.

    There is a way when you set up the custom game. There is an "Overide Width" and "Overide Height" to customize map size. I used 140 x 140 quite a bit with 18 civs.

    They can be. That's for sure. I've always had my own army ready to counter another. However, I haven't fought many long standing wars in any of the games I've played.

    The instructors can only form armies in a city. Don't know about forts; I never use them. All the units you want to merge have to be in the city with the instructor. As for the number of units; it depends on what era you are in, and what era soldiers you are looking to merge. I usually wait until the Medieval (3rd) era to make my first army of five axemen. Axemen are ancient army units. If you made an ancient era army while still in the ancient era, you can only merge three ancient units together. However, if you are in the medival era, you're two eras ahead of the ancient units, so you can add two more (one for each era). A strength 25 unit is nice during medieval times!

    As for the promotions an army gets, they get all the individual promotions from each soldier you merge. Im my above example, I make five axemen and give them all different promotions. When merged, your army will have ALL of them from all five units! This comes in really handy, especially in the later eras!

    You cannot upgrade an army unit as far as I can tell. If it's no longer useful, disband it and make another!

    For most instances, you can only plant on a tile that has fresh water. So it needs to be by rivers, lakes, or near a city with a water well. When you get "Civil Service", then you can plant in all squares adjacent to a farm. Hope that helps!

    Good luck as you continue your game!
     
  12. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    This is a known issue, yet to be resolved. It’s not a game breaker, just a minor irritant.

    Cultivating Oysters can be useful on coastal cities.

    I would guess that one of you opponents has the seafaring trait. Seafaring provides double production speed for the Caravel, which can circumnavigate the map quickly. Seafaring also provides an additional movement for Naval units.

    When playing a custom game, you can use Smartmap options to adjust the map size. Overall width and height can be directly changed to meet your map size needs.

    Krakens are meant to be a major problem to contend with. There are strategies including sacrificing units to bypass the Kraken.

    I would suggest you utilize siege weapons, which have opportunity fire against an Army.

    Agreed. I will work on adjusting the Battering Ram to be a precursor to the Siege tower. You will see it in 3.06.


    Ancient catapults are not very effective against units. They are made to take down city defenses.

    You must build an army inside of a city. The game does not allow you to build an Army on the doorstep of an enemy civ. However, your point is well taken and more documentation will be forth coming in version 3.06.

    The forth coming documentation for combined units will address that.

    We will go back and review upgrades for combined units and post the information in 3.06.

    We will fix the civic issue in 3.06.

    There is no limit on creating the resources allowed. But, mineral resources can't be replicated.

    You may have to terriform the plot before adding certain resources. For example hills. This is another candidate for better documentation in 3.06.
     
  13. Jennvare

    Jennvare Prince

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    Orion,

    Just finished my first game with the new version. You can see some of my observations in my reply to "DavidCooke". However, there are some other things I noticed/

    1) The barbarians never seem to advance beyond the "Ancient Age". In an era of bombers, tanks, and flame thrower units, it's amusing to see a stack of axemen and warriors approaching my outer cities trying to look menacing. I don't mind the free experience points for my army units, but is this intended? The base game usually has them advance with the lowest civ in play (I think, but not sure).

    2) Super Fast research: Play and Epic paced game with 750 turns, I launched the spaceship on turn 330 and researched all techs plus two future techs at turn 345. I wanted to make an army to go on the attack, but by the time I built the units, they were already obsolete!! You may need to increase tech costs for the later stages of the game just so you have more time to make use of the units you are building. I know you have a setting that slows all research down, but that can be killer in the first two eras of the game. Just something to consider.

    3) Having so much to build: There are so many option of buildings to make and things to build; it can get pretty overwhelming. For an Empire Builder, this can be a wonderful thing. However, it can also lead to stretches where you don't do much but build buildings. In some instances you have too, especially if you don't get many of the wonders that grant a certain building to all your cities. This can break the back of many AI civs if I or any one of the other AI's gets too far ahead.

    I don't know how hard this would be to implement, but in the Mod "Master of Mana", they actually had a way of making you specialize your cities. They had "districts" which would be the pre-requisites for a certain type of building, but it would also block other buildings as well. For example, they had a "Merchants District" which would allow all the gold producing buildings to be made, but would block all the other types (research, culture, etc). The did allow basic buildings for all types to be built so it wasn't completely one-dimensional. They also had a "Military District" to produce buildings that granted greater exp rewards and/or Free promotions. Even some of the wonders required a "district". Again, I don't know how hard it would be to work this in and get the AI to use it properly. Just some food for thought.

    Now, don't get me wrong, this mod does ALOT of things right. After all, I'm still playing it! These games are not easy. After all, even in this last game. Another civ launched their spaceship 10 turns after I launched mine! So it was REAL close!

    More feedback later on! Keep up the good work!
     
  14. DavidCooke

    DavidCooke Warlord

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    But they had to have had optics many turns before that, there isn't much game time involved.


    Can you set it to anything, or are there limits?

    Again, the instructor has to be in its OWN city, the one in which it was built. I didn't have enough cities to form another army, so I took an instructor along when I went to war, thinking I could assemble an army when I conquered a couple cities. I couldn't, and in the end I had to march him and the units all the way back home.


    Wow, that would be handy. What if I leave the units un-promoted?


    That sucks. Your army still has the men, and their combat experience. You should be able to re-equip them, and train them on the new weapon systems. It should set back their experience level by half, or something.


    It does, thanks a lot!
     
  15. DavidCooke

    DavidCooke Warlord

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    Oh yeah, I forgot about the extra movement point.

    Is there a limit?

    Something weird. I rolled a stack of catapults up next to the enemy's capitol, which had an army in it. The army disappeared. I assumed he moved it (no messages about opportunity fire, or having killed it). But I conquered all his cities, and never saw it, it was like it was disbanded. Did he run away from my stack of catapults? And did his army get disbanded when he dropped below 3 cities?


    I have the same problem from early ballistas. These units say they have an accuracy of 50, but it seems more like 5%. I DID FINALLY hit a unit inside a city, took like 40 tries.

    I did try to form it inside a city. You have to form it inside the instructor's HOME CITY, it wouldn't work anywhere else. Also, the limit of only one instructor at a time as a national unit is a major problem for a large civ (100+ cities). You need to build armies all over the place.

    I'd like to see unit experience cut in half on an upgrade, not wiped back to 10. I'd like to be able to upgrade an army with a great general attached (or any unit, for that matter).

    BTW: ever see a destroyer with blitz and leadership? Crazy GG generator. Bomb a stack of galleons with planes, and then rack up 26 xp in a turn.


    I guess I wasn't next to a source of fresh water, then. It would be nice if it would tell you that, when you hover the mouse over the greyed-out action button.


    What happens to hidden resources when you plant another resource? Like, if I plant sheep on a hill that has hidden rubber? Or coal, or aluminum? Could I harm my later development by planting stuff everywhere?

    There is a nice feature in K-Mod, that lets you move naval units into forts if they are on the ocean. Very handy for building pass-thrus on narrow land bridges.

    Changing city distance from 2 to 3 causes several problems, so I changed it back. First, that is a big range to try culture flipping. Second, it makes it harder to reinforce your cities against a major landing force. On an invasion, you need the reinforcements there in one turn. With a spacing of 3, it is 4 steps. Horses can do it, but they are poor defenders. Third, on small island maps it is difficult to build enough cities.

    There is a typo in some text, having to do with non-combatant ships. It comes up when you hover the mouse over the ship, something about "cultural boarders", should be borders.

    I think with all the science available via planting oysters, that you should increase research costs across the tech tree, to balance a bit.

    It is an annoyance, to have to build two work boats per water square, to plant a resource and then set up fishing, it is a lot of micro-management. Couldn't this be combined into a single unit, that costs more shields but gets it done alone? It wouldn't affect balance, but would make it easier on the player. You could have one type of unit for each type of resource you wish to create, and make them available on the appropriate techs, although that would clutter the build queue.

    It would be nice if we could build a type (unit, building, wonder) and only have those items show up in the drop list.

    It would be nice if the list was alphabetized. It would be nice if the list of items built in a city was alphabetized, too. You could make it a flag to be set in the interface.

    Okay, I built the agriculture trait, but did not get reservoirs in my cities, I'm having to build them. I don't know if that is a bug, or working as intended. Documentation doesn't say.
     
  16. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    I'll have to add my 2 cents along with jennvare, OV.

    I always play with RB checked, and they really arn't much of a threat to myself or the AI's. Agree with Jennvare that you may need to tweak 'em a bit.

    Research; again, agree with Jennvare. I also play on epic speed ( only EMP diff though), and I also try to city specialize. Hit a couple of GS wonders, pop a GS or two into your Sci city, and your hitting techs faster than getting candy from a pez dispenser.

    This isn't a bash bro, just a mild observation. I really enjoy your mod and have fun with some unique features that I haven't found in any other mod. Keep up the stellar work.

    Oh, any info regarding my scenario issue? still haven't been able to get it to run since the new update..

    thx, Drak.
     
  17. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    We shall add Barbarian behavior to the long list of things to do.

    Discussions continue with this issue. I will get back to you.

    It is our hope that stability and the unique features and capabilities found only in OGI, will attract more people to play this mod.

    Check out the update I made to post 614.
     
  18. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    Try making a custom game and check out the drop down boxes. There you will see the minimum and maximum limits for a map size.

    The AI likely disbanded the Army due to the extra cost to maintain it: +3

    I will check into ballista accuracy and get back to you.


    You can build an Army in any of your cities. Ratio is 3 cities to 1 combined unit. Just send the instructor to the city with the units you wish to combine. Make sure you have enough units inside the city to create the Army.

    It has been a while since I created the combined forces mod. I will review combined unit upgrades and get back with you. Again, another reason for more documentation. Seems like I spend hours just on documentation changes. :whew:


    This is a minor issue compared to some of the others I'm currently working on. Might get to it down the road some.


    It is possible that you might replace a hidden strategic mineral resource by planting or breeding. Its a calculated risk that you take in OGI.

    You should have the same capability in OGI. :confused:

    It is nice to have the option to change settings. 3 is the default setting for OGI. Your city distance setting is your customization of OGI for your style of play.

    Fixed in version 3.06.

    ...Looking into this issue and will get back to you.

    There are pros and cons to every new capability. We chose to stick with the default behavior for workboats, when creating a water resource.


    I would have to research how to do it.

    Did you start the game with agriculture or did you get the trait through a Mystery wonder?
     
  19. OrionVeteran

    OrionVeteran Deity

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    We will look into barbarian behavior.

    Discussions are again taking place over tech speed.


    It all comes down to strategy and choice. :D


    I have never played "Master of Mana". I will DL it and check it out.

    The goal is to make the AI competitive. Glad you had a real close space race.


    Will do.
     
  20. DavidCooke

    DavidCooke Warlord

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    Thanks, I'll give that a try, after I finish the current game, still a lot to see for the first time.

    Not something the AI should do when a big stack is knocking at the door, it was his only hope of survival.


    I don't have much trouble hitting units that are outside of cities, it is only when they are in a city. Oh, LUV snipers, BTW.


    Eh, I'm pretty sure NOT. Instructor has to be in his own city. But, I'll test it again, to be 1000% sure.


    Okay, off the top of my head:

    3 units of contemporaneous time period. +1 unit per earlier time period. I think all units have to be of the same period, to combine. ANy extraneous XP points are lost. But all earned promotions are combined into the army (or navy). That's pretty wild. Right after you go to a new era, if you can build 10 XP units, you can combine 4, each with 3 promotions, and end up with an army with 12 promotions. More, if any of the units come with free promotions. That can get kind of insane.


    Wow, wonder how much I trashed. Funny, you can build a town on top of oil, but you can't plant a corn field?


    No pass-through forts. I built a fort for that purpose, and couldn't use it, I'm 100% sure on that. Is there a variable in an xml file that controls this?



    It is nice to have the option to change settings. 3 is the default setting for OGI. Your city distance setting is your customization of OGI for your style of play.


    How about just not destroying the boat, when you create a resource? It doesn't destroy a worker to plant a field. It would save a lot of build cycles, and fhalf as many boats running around. Just make the boat 80 hammers instead of 60.

    Another problem I run into: when breeding fish with a team of boats, when one boat finishes, the other boats don't go inactive. I think that is because it is possible to replace one with another, so they just keep on breeding, the same one over and over.

    I have a similar problem with workers, not stopping when the job is done, they still have the little hammer icon in the corner, even when their dot is green, and retasking them is kinda buggy. I'll select them all, and it will group them and put them on wait, and go to the next unit in the build queue. I have to use \ to go back, and take them apart, tell them to stop current action, before I can redirect them.


    I'm playing the Whiny Kapoc, Financial and Industrial. I got ag later, along with science (free scientist didn't show up for a while). No reservoirs, and they are a costly build.

    Speaking of COSTLY builds, what is up with the paper mill? 5400 hammers? It's more than twice other major wonders, for free bookstores? I went to build it in a secondary city, it told me 36 turns, and I went WHHHAAAAAA?????

    I did this quest, one where it tells you to plant cities on 16 different land masses. I spent a couple hundred turns expanding drastically, and managed to complete it between start of Ren and Industrial. For a reward: temples in cities greater than 5, or a great prophet. Call me jaded, but with religion restrictions, a GP is no biggie, as only one shrine is really useful. And with all the happy stuff, temples are no biggie. For 30 hammers and spiritual trait, I can make 5 priests. So the temples aren't a big deal, either. Reward definitely not commensurate with the effort, I could have been focusing on conquering others instead.

    Hmm, quests for special units could be cool. Not sure what they'd do, but I'm sure people can think of stuff.
     

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