Orion's Grand Inquisition

[Drakarska]

That sounds over-powered. Compare that to the effort it takes to build espionage points, and put a spy in an opponent's city, and destroy one building. The hacker sounds dreadfully unbalanced.

Agreed. One city I can see affecting with a hack, but all the cites? especially on huge plus maps?

 

[OrionVeteran]

Agreed. One city I can see affecting with a hack, but all the cites? especially on huge plus maps?

In the previous version, the hacker was able to take out Key National wonders, like Oxford University or Wall Street. They provide free buildings in every city. A successful hack was way too powerful, so we toned it down a lot. The odds of a successful hacker attack is very rare, about 1 chance in 12 attempts. Plus the hacker dies if he is not both successful and did not get caught. If the hacker gets caught, diplomatic relations suffer significantly.

Late in the game, it might take you one round to restore the lost specialist management building in each city. So, a successful hack is more of an irritant, than an overpowered exploit.

 

[DavidCooke]

In the previous version, the hacker was able to take out Key National wonders, like Oxford University or Wall Street. They provide free buildings in every city. A successful hack was way too powerful, so we toned it down a lot. The odds of a successful hacker attack is very rare, about 1 chance in 12 attempts. Plus the hacker dies if he is not both successful and did not caught. If the hacker gets caught, diplomatic relations suffer significantly.

Late in the game, it might take you one round to restore the lost specialist management building in each city. So, a successful hack is more of an irritant, than an overpowered exploit.

I think the concept should be re-thought. For example, I can't see how a hacker can destroy factories across an entire world. After all, not all factories use computers. Very few of them that do use computers use the same one. Most all of them have specially designed, dedicated software, that isn't shared with others. Also, dedicated, turn-key equipment isn't online anyway, so it isn't vulnerable to attack.

A hacker could maybe disrupt the banking system. Of course, it wouldn't destroy the banks, they would still be there. But they could be disrupted so they don't function for a turn. Also things like research labs. Some things are too broad-based to be attacked en masse. Highly technical, computerized things could be targeted. Other stuff couldn't be targeted across an entire civ, although local instances could be disrupted. Still, you aren't going to destroy libraries, they will still have their books, and I'm sure all their digital data is archived onto discs.

 

[OrionVeteran]

I think the concept should be re-thought. For example, I can't see how a hacker can destroy factories across an entire world. After all, not all factories use computers. Very few of them that do use computers use the same one. Most all of them have specially designed, dedicated software, that isn't shared with others. Also, dedicated, turn-key equipment isn't online anyway, so it isn't vulnerable to attack.

A hacker could maybe disrupt the banking system. Of course, it wouldn't destroy the banks, they would still be there. But they could be disrupted so they don't function for a turn. Also things like research labs. Some things are too broad-based to be attacked en masse. Highly technical, computerized things could be targeted. Other stuff couldn't be targeted across an entire civ, although local instances could be disrupted. Still, you aren't going to destroy libraries, they will still have their books, and I'm sure all their digital data is archived onto discs.

Really, it came down to a technical rule of thumb: The hacker must not take out a building that is provided for free by a wonder. Why? Because the game code would automatically provide the removed buildings for free at the beginning of the hacked player's turn. This would completely nullify the hacker attack. This significantly reduced the list to only a few building types.

The specialist management buildings are stand alone, as no wonder provides them for free. Therefore, they are what we had to go with.

 

[DavidCooke]

Hmm, not sure what you mean by "specialist management building". There aren't many buildings that don't come free from some wonder or other. However, any unit that can remotely destroy buildings in every city is overpowered.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Hmm, not sure what you mean by "specialist management building". There aren't many buildings that don't come free from some wonder or other. However, any unit that can remotely destroy buildings in every city is overpowered.

Look at the building list and find: Spec Mgt ****. There are a bunch of them. However, only a select few can be hacked:

BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_AGGRESSIVE
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_AGRICULTURAL
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_COVERT
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_EXPANSIVE
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_IMPERIALIST
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_INDUSTRIOUS
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_SPIRITUAL

Remember, in 3.07, the AI will know how to execute hacker missions. I've tested it and it works.

 

[DavidCooke]

Look at the building list and find: Spec Mgt ****. There are a bunch of them. However, only a select few can be hacked:

BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_AGGRESSIVE
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_AGRICULTURAL
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_COVERT
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_EXPANSIVE
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_IMPERIALIST
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_INDUSTRIOUS
BUILDINGCLASS_SPECIALIST_MANAGEMENT_SPIRITUAL

Remember, in 3.07, the AI will know how to execute hacker missions. I've tested it and it works.

Are those those things that cost like 30 hammers, and let you build extra specialists because of your trait?

 

[OrionVeteran]

Are those those things that cost like 30 hammers, and let you build extra specialists because of your trait?

Yes. Since they are so cheap, they can be easily rebuilt in one turn after a successful enemy cyber attack. Thus, the annoyance.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Announcing the release of OGI 3.07



The OGI307Setup.exe Installation file has been updated and posted for download.

See first post for a detailed break down of the changes in this version.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Population Limitation


What do you think about the new capability?

 

[OrionVeteran]

OGI is currently at: 2,700+ downloads, since inception and we have big plans for future releases. Ultimately we want OGI to be the mod of choice for the civilization community and we will keep improving it until we reach that goal.



"OGI is like a souped-up version of Double Your Pleasure." Comment from historian DLQ

 

[DavidCooke]

Population Limitation


What do you think about the new capability?

I haven't played it yet, but a limitation isn't a new capability. Have to say, I liked the old +pop builds better than this new idea. In the late game it was nice to build a more capable city quickly.

 

[OrionVeteran]

I haven't played it yet, but a limitation isn't a new capability. Have to say, I liked the old +pop builds better than this new idea. In the late game it was nice to build a more capable city quickly.

You may want to reserve judgment until you actually experience a city population cap. The historian said 3.07 runs very stable. Of course he has a new PC, with all the Ram and video card memory he could ever want.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Work has begun on version 3.08.

1. Added new graphic for the assault ship.
2. Added new graphic for the Mortar.
3. Deleted resource Lemons.
4. Added resource Metal deposits for ocean plots.
5. Metal deposits resource uses Sea factory improvement.
6. Stopped python population "limit" increase message, if player has tech genetics.
7. Stopped removal of improvement when prospect mission is complete.
8. Limited worker prospect mission to plots that have a mine or a deep mine.
9. Limited worker prospect mission to plots that have a hill or a peak.
10. Reduced time it takes to complete a prospect mission.
11. Replaced graphic for unit Quinquereme.
12. Replaced graphic for Trans-Continental Railroad Wonder.
13. Changed SDK to prevent all replicator builds (Planting Breeding, etc.) from replacing an existing revealed resource.
14. If there is an existing revealed resource on a plot, the replicator build icons will not be visible to execute. This significantly reduces clutter.
15. Added new Build Clear Plot, which removes any existing improvement and resource from a plot.
16. Only one worker is needed to clear a Plot, unless the plot has a feature like a forest to be removed first.
17. Removing a resource with Clear Plot, is now an intentional act by the player.
18. Much more to come.

We hope to complete some big goals in 3.08. It may be many weeks before completion.

 

[DavidCooke]

You may want to reserve judgment until you actually experience a city population cap. The historian said 3.07 runs very stable. Of course he has a new PC, with all the Ram and video card memory he could ever want.

Well, the AI gets build bonuses at high difficulty. One way to overcome that is to play smarter, making your cities happier so you can build them bigger. For example, in the standard game, you can spread multiple religions to all your cities, so you can build multiple temples in each one, and more cathedrals, too. This also lets you build multiple monasteries in each city, for a greater science boost, to overcome their fast tech rate.

A population cap, and your religion mod, prevent using those techniques.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Well, the AI gets build bonuses at high difficulty. One way to overcome that is to play smarter, making your cities happier so you can build them bigger. For example, in the standard game, you can spread multiple religions to all your cities, so you can build multiple temples in each one, and more cathedrals, too. This also lets you build multiple monasteries in each city, for a greater science boost, to overcome their fast tech rate.

A population cap, and your religion mod, prevent using those techniques.

Population Limitation: The population cap can be used as you see fit until you decide to build one of the four buildings that modify the cap by +20 each. If you build each of these buildings before reaching the city population limit, you will never experience a population cap. If you want to limit city population at a certain level, you can. So, the population limitation mod is just another tool to execute your style of play.

Religious Inquisitions: If you do not want to play a game with religious Inquisitions or limited religions, all you have to do is disable the respective options, when you start a new game.

So in fact, you can use your techniques.

BTW: The reason that we limit religions is to give all players, human and AI, a chance to get a religion. Running the table early and grabbing all of the religions before the AI is not possible in limited religions. I consider getting all of the religions in vanilla BTS to be an exploit, because it excludes other players and the AI from the benefits of having their own religion.

 

[Jennvare]

Hey Orion,

I think i found a possible "loop" bug. It keeps happening on the same turn, so I am not sure what is causing it. I have attached one save game (turn 223) where when you end the turn, it starts to "loop" and the game stops.

I have also attached a save on turn 220 if that helps at all.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Hey Orion,

I think i found a possible "loop" bug. It keeps happening on the same turn, so I am not sure what is causing it. I have attached one save game (turn 223) where when you end the turn, it starts to "loop" and the game stops.

I have also attached a save on turn 220 if that helps at all.

After fixing the SDK spelling bug, I ran another test and the problem still persists on turn 223. However, if I play from turn 220 I get to 225 and beyond with no issue. The log files did not provide any indication of a major break and the SDK debug did not catch it either.

I'm not sure what to do at this point other than recommend you use the file with turn 220 and play from there.

 

[ChubbyPitbull]

How long should starting a new custom game be at the "Initializing..." part of game start? I seem to get stuck there. Are there certain options that should not be used or enabled at game start? I was worrying maybe overriding length and width to 512 may be slowing it down.

 

[OrionVeteran]

How long should starting a new custom game be at the "Initializing..." part of game start? I seem to get stuck there. Are there certain options that should not be used or enabled at game start? I was worrying maybe overriding length and width to 512 may be slowing it down.

OGI will take a while longer to initialize when you have a large map.

For the options, make sure you turn off:

DCM Battle Effects
DCM Stack Attack
DCM Civilization Changer

The rest are up to you.