Orion's Home School: Winning at Noble

[Orion071]

Wow, you're good. Are you sure you're only a Noble player?

Couple of things. If you build Stonehenge you are giving up on an early Axe rush against Joao. That's OK, but be aware it's what you're doing. You probably won't be able to take him out until Construction and catapults. (Though you can have an early war to pick off satellite cites and pillage.)

All those flood plains will let you run a lot of specialists. I know you say you're not a good SE player, but I'm not talking about an SE... just about taking advantage of opportunities! I'd suggest a mix of farms and cottages in the floodplains. In the early centuries, Priests and Scientists are both good, and IMO it's OK to run both specialists together and take potluck. (Not everyone agrees on this.)

A minor tip: have you looked at the "complete" tech tree? The one that shows all the "or" gates? Because you get a small tech bonus if you have all the prerequisites. The classic example is Writing. You can get Writing if you have Pottery OR Priesthood OR Animal Husbandry. But if you have two of the three, you get a 5% bonus on beaker production, and if you have all three, it's 10%. Not huge, but every bit helps, and if all other things are equal (they usually aren't) you can save some beakers by teching this way.

As for Ragnar: he has some weaknesses. One is that he tends not to found religions. Spread him yours if you can -- it may be worth building a Monastery and a Missionary early, if you're not going to war with Joao. Hey, Monasteries give you +10% beakers and culture too.

Will be watching with interest!

cheers,


Waldo

Thanks for the compliment. No, I'm not a Noble player, I normally play on Emperor. I'm playing this game to show beginning players that these levels are easily beatable. Nobody who loves this game like we all do should be stuck on Warlord or Noble. I'm trying to raise their game so we can all play without the frustration that I see from some posts that say they can't beat Noble or below.

Yes, by building Stonehenge, I'm giving up an Axe rush on Joao. I'm not planning an Axe rush anyway considering my only source of Copper is pretty far away at this point. After Writing will be Iron Working so I can hook up Iron. Swordsmen will take down Joao. while I convert Rangar to be my friend and tech trading partner. Unfortunately we'll have to meet some more civs first. The AI (expect Mansa) won't trade with you if you're the only civ that he knows. I except some more civs to start appearing soon though. With these settings, the island chains link up the main continents, and we'll see some exploring Galleys or even Workboats soon.

As for the specialists, of course I will be running specialists at certain times. Just because I plan on running a CE doesn't mean that I won't run specialists. I am Philosophical after all. A little later on I plan on focusing on Delhi and showing all of the different ways I can work different tiles. But we're not even at 2000 BC yet and there's not much to show so far.

I want to talk a bit about Bronze Working. Yes, I got BW fairly late, but remember this is Epic speed and it's still only 2225 BC. Did I miss it? Not really. The forests are still there. I can still chop them. I have plenty of tiles that I can improve and use without chopping the forests. With the nerf on chopping yields until Mathmatics, I don't immediately start clear-cutting all of my forests, even on Emperor. I'll chop a few right away for something important, like an Axe rush or an early wonder (like Stonehenge). I sometimes help my first Settler along with a single chop (although not in this game). But that's about it. My forests really come in handy later on when I can multiply the yield with things like Math, Organized Religion or a Forge.

 

[Roxlimn]

Perhaps it would be best to say that you're really planning on running a hybrid economy. It's understood by most high level players that when you say "CE," what you really mean is "a hybrid economy that trends more to CE," but players on Noble and below won't understand the distinction.

 

[madscientist]

Great thread so far, I think this will help alot of posters.

Regarding the CE and SE. I think anybody running a CE will still have a GP farm. SO to clarify things, as I understand, a CE has 1 city for GPs with no other specialists in other cities, an SE runs alot of specialists, and a hybrid mixes both (I think most go down this route, at least I do).

 

[Orion071]

Some more tips on exploration:

1) On Noble, you get +10% against Barbarians and a whopping +40% against animals. This means you can actually be a lot less careful about your exploration and get away with it. Ending a Scout's turn in the open field is usually a big no-no. On Noble, they still have a very good chance to survive an animal attack. Get used to ending turns on hills and forests for the extra defensive protection. You'll need it as you move up in levels and lose those bonuses.

2) I like to be aggressive with my opening Warriors. This means actually attacking animals for XP when I get the chance. As I said, it's a big advantage when you can get the Woodsman II promotion on your Warriors for faster exploration. Attacking gives you more XP than defending. In this game, my second Warrior attacked a Lion in the open field and had a 90+% chance of winning. I took that risk and got 2 XP instead of the 1 XP I would have received had I defended. I later attacked a wounded Lion at 94% odds for 2 more XP. This got my second Warrior to Woodsman II in 3 fights instead of 5. Remember, animals don't receive defensive bonuses, so a Lion on a forrested hill is just as easy to beat as one in the open. Animals will get a 25% bonus if you attack across a river, so don't do that.

Once you are up to 5 XP, you can't get any more from animals. In that case, stick to the defensive terrain and let them hopelessly attack you. Even a 95%attack for no gain is pointless when simply defending in a forest is virtually a 100% chance of survival.

 

[Roxlimn]

Depends on the combo. Naturally, you will want to have an early GP farm, and this GP farm will usually be your Capital or 2nd city because it's usually the most developed and will house the National Epic quite nicely.

Unfortunately, you'll also want to trend towards a Science City for the eventual Oxford, and then also have to consider the Specialist implications of a National Park later on. I think that even the most diehard CE fans cannot vouschafe the benefits of about 2-3 Specialist Cities, meaning that they are absolutely running a hybrid, albeit one that skews strongly to Cottage use.

 

[Orion071]

Depends on the combo. Naturally, you will want to have an early GP farm, and this GP farm will usually be your Capital or 2nd city because it's usually the most developed and will house the National Epic quite nicely.

Unfortunately, you'll also want to trend towards a Science City for the eventual Oxford, and then also have to consider the Specialist implications of a National Park later on. I think that even the most diehard CE fans cannot vouschafe the benefits of about 2-3 Specialist Cities, meaning that they are absolutely running a hybrid, albeit one that skews strongly to Cottage use.

I don't think anybody runs a pure CE with no specialists at all unless they're doing some crazy variant. There's going to be some specialists somewhere. I also find that enemy capitals make excellent GP farms. I suspect that Joao's capital will suit that purpose, but I need to get in there and see for sure.

The whole debate between CE and SE is kind of tiresome to me. Almost everyone runs some sort of hybrid, the question is to what extreme. CE people still have a GP farm and SE people will often cottage the capital for Bureaucracy.

Delhi will certainly be a science city, and could also have the Great Library and Oxford. My only reservation is the GP pollution caused by Stonehenge, the Oracle (possibly) and the Hindu Shrine. I could also see Bombay holding all of the science wonders. 2 Gold mines gives it plenty of commerce and it has enough production potential to build the Great Library and Oxford.

 

[xanadux]

I wouldn't worry much about getting a great prophet. It is of course ideal to get the great scientist first when doing an early capital cottage spam. +50% beakers is a huge boost early in the game. But the prophet may be the best settled GP (or the GSpy). 2 hammers is excellent. But when running a cottaged capital economy, the 5 gold is way better than it first appears.

Take a look at what actually happens to that 5 gold at the point you have oxford and bureaucracy. The 5 gold is probably being multiplied by a market, so that's 6 gold. But you are able to convert this gold to beakers because it allows you to run a higher science slider on average. If 2/3 of your beakers are coming from the capital, roughly 4 of those 6 gold can now be considered converted into beakers in the capital through the science slider. With oxford, the capital has a 200% bonus to beakers, so that 4 gold is really 12 science. Most of the rest of this gold gets a slight advantage in the other cities because most of your core cities have libraries and universities. The 5 gold from the prophet is worth more like 14 beakers. Compare to a settled scientist, which gives you 18 with oxford. The difference between a settled prophet and a settled scientist is pretty close to a trade of a little more than 1 base commerce for 1 base hammer. So under a cottage/bureaucracy capital based economy, a settled prophet and a settled scientist are almost equivalent. Of course getting the first scientist for an academy is far more valuable than a prophet.

 

[eewallace]

Very nice thread! I play on noble, and also think that Gandhi is one of the most versatile leaders (I've won diplo and space race with him) so this is useful.

My big problem with Gandhi is that, in situations not unlike what you have going here, he can get overpowered militarily fairly early on. I can't wait to see how you deal with Ragnar who, knowing him, will be coming after you soon!

 

[madscientist]

Very nice thread! I play on noble, and also think that Gandhi is one of the most versatile leaders (I've won diplo and space race with him) so this is useful.

My big problem with Gandhi is that, in situations not unlike what you have going here, he can get overpowered militarily fairly early on. I can't wait to see how you deal with Ragnar who, knowing him, will be coming after you soon!

Funny, every time I play Gandhi (Note correct spelling ) I always end up with a domination type victory in warlords or BTS.

The little pacifist can be a real monster war-monger: early copper from mining, fast worker the entire game to hook up resources, Phil to get the tech lead. Asoka and Gandhi are two of the best war-monger that are without warish traits.

 

[uncarved block]

Just a couple questions, from someone considering making the jump to Prince:

Did the thought of a Chariot rush against Joao cross your mind? Whenever I get Horses that close, it's the first thing that crosses my mind. Why worry about beating Joao to a spot if there are no more Portuguese? Chopping and whipping can get a force of six Chariots fairly easy. Or was that too aggressive for a tutorial?

Was Buddhism founded already? Before or after you got Hinduism? Going after a second or third religion in the capitol happened in Sulla's walk through, but I've since discovered (along with many others) that it's not a good idea to shoot for it, even if you succeed.

Expanding without running the economy into the ground is a huge problem, and a common complaint here at CFC. Is it too early to discuss the tech tree in that regard? Code of Laws (and Courthouses) is the usual path, though I'm becoming more fond of Currency and Marketplaces. If you're going to dot map cities that aren't going to be founded for 50-100 turns, thinking a couple techs ahead on the tree doesn't seem to much of a stretch.

Health isn't a huge issue, but lower happiness caps have been the hardest change for me with BtS. Are you going to go for Forges to double the Gold, or shoot for Calendar or Monarchy to handle that problem? Or just whip all the whiners away? Just curious.

I agree with madscientist that Gandhi can be quite the military man if you want. I liked warring with the Indians in C3C as well, but that's ancient history right now . . .

 

[hwynboy]

I am so glad someone is taking time to hold our noob copllective hands =) I have been playing for a couple 2-3 months now and I can win space race on Noble but thats about it. I usually lose on Noble and I am sure I just don't completely understand what I'm doing. I am usually a peaceful civilization and try to out culture and tech my opponents. I usually get rushed and lose =(

Thanks for taking time out to share your thoughts on why and how.

A quick question I had about your current progress is why do you not focus on missionary to help with Ragnar, cause I know if this was my game Ragnar would wtfpwn me in a quick way. And Jao tends to be an ass always demanding stuff. I hate him.

 

[Orion071]

Just a couple questions, from someone considering making the jump to Prince:

Did the thought of a Chariot rush against Joao cross your mind? Whenever I get Horses that close, it's the first thing that crosses my mind. Why worry about beating Joao to a spot if there are no more Portuguese? Chopping and whipping can get a force of six Chariots fairly easy. Or was that too aggressive for a tutorial?

Actually, I didn't even think of it. I assume it would work on Noble, but I'm use to higher levels where 1) Everyone starts with Archery and free units and 2) Everyone creates too many units. You need at least 2:1 Chariots to Archers to take out a capital, and 3:1 if it's on a hill. It is a little aggressive for a tutorial, but Joao still won't like it when my Swordsmen come knocking in about 1000 BC.

Was Buddhism founded already? Before or after you got Hinduism? Going after a second or third religion in the capitol happened in Sulla's walk through, but I've since discovered (along with many others) that it's not a good idea to shoot for it, even if you succeed.

IIRC, Buddhism was founded 2 turns before I founded Hinduism. Nearly gave me a heart attack thinking that I lost the race. In order to get a second holy city in Delhi I would have to tech to Monotheism without founding a second city. That's wasn't going to happen. Sulla had multiple 2-commerce tiles to work (Spain on a lake) so he could tech quicker than I could. But by getting all of those religions and not any Worker techs, he didn't have any improved tiles or even another city until probably later in the game than we are now. Actually, I just looked it up. His Worker didn't appear until 2160 BC and he didn't found another city until 1400 BC! Those are the tradeoffs you make for chasing the religions.

Expanding without running the economy into the ground is a huge problem, and a common complaint here at CFC. Is it too early to discuss the tech tree in that regard? Code of Laws (and Courthouses) is the usual path, though I'm becoming more fond of Currency and Marketplaces. If you're going to dot map cities that aren't going to be founded for 50-100 turns, thinking a couple techs ahead on the tree doesn't seem to much of a stretch.

So true. One thing in my favor is that I have THREE Gold mines that I can tap into for extremely high early commerce as well as numerous floodplains cottages. I should be able to easily expand to 4 or 5 cities pre-Code of Laws or Currency. Code of Laws will be a priority because my preferred city sites (Bombay, Pink dot, Blue dot and Joao's capital ) are all pretty far from my own capital. That makes courthouses a better solution than Currency. My expected tech path for the near future will be Writing -> Iron Working -> Alphabet. Then I'll see what I can get from Joao and Ragnar and go from there.

Health isn't a huge issue, but lower happiness caps have been the hardest change for me with BtS. Are you going to go for Forges to double the Gold, or shoot for Calendar or Monarchy to handle that problem? Or just whip all the whiners away? Just curious.

Forges? Yes. Calendar? Of course. Monarchy? Sure. Whipping? Most definitely. As you've already said, there's lots of ways to increase happiness and I plan on using them all. We'll start with the whip since that's all I've got right now. I like to grab Metal Working with the Oracle so I can use Forges, but that may not happen this game. I probably can't do a Sword rush and build the Oracle too. Monarchy would be good if I can grab the Wine at Pink dot. Hereditary Rule helps too. Calendar will be last becuase I won't expand into the jungle to get those resources until much later.

I agree with madscientist that Gandhi can be quite the military man if you want. I liked warring with the Indians in C3C as well, but that's ancient history right now . . .

More of my Gandhi games end up as Domination victories than anything else. I don't know what it is with him, but India can certainly kick butt.

 

[uncarved block]

OK, those are some helpful answers. I will be interested in seeing how you trade off getting Hammers through whipping while still maintaining those Gold mines and not getting too many unhappy citizens.

So the immediate plan is to rush Joao with Swords, but before Construction, right? (Depending on where Iron pops up, of course.) Will you think about taking down Ragnar next if a bunch of other civs make contact via the sea? I've had mixed luck with Ragnar as a neighbor: if we're alone, it doesn't seem to matter how happy he is, because he is, well, Aggressive. If there's someone else to occupy his attention, though, he makes a fairly decent neighbor, especially if you share a religion. It may seem a bit early to be thinking that far ahead, but I've found that having a war in the works is the easiest way to remember to keep the power rating high enough to avoid getting pushed around. (Another common complaint is getting DoWed when unready.) But that's probably a session or two down the road.

 

[Quotey]

Take a look at what actually happens to that 5 gold at the point you have oxford and bureaucracy. The 5 gold is probably being multiplied by a market, so that's 6 gold. But you are able to convert this gold to beakers because it allows you to run a higher science slider on average. If 2/3 of your beakers are coming from the capital, roughly 4 of those 6 gold can now be considered converted into beakers in the capital through the science slider. With oxford, the capital has a 200% bonus to beakers, so that 4 gold is really 12 science. Most of the rest of this gold gets a slight advantage in the other cities because most of your core cities have libraries and universities. The 5 gold from the prophet is worth more like 14 beakers. Compare to a settled scientist, which gives you 18 with oxford. The difference between a settled prophet and a settled scientist is pretty close to a trade of a little more than 1 base commerce for 1 base hammer. So under a cottage/bureaucracy capital based economy, a settled prophet and a settled scientist are almost equivalent. Of course getting the first scientist for an academy is far more valuable than a prophet.

You're absolutely wrong on the prophet. The 5 gold is five GOLD, not commerce. Commerce is changed into beakers, eps, culture, and gold at the end of the turn. Gold is added to your bank at the end of the turn. In the early game, a settled GPr will let you run the slider higher because you have more gold to play around with.

 

[xanadux]

You're absolutely wrong on the prophet. The 5 gold is five GOLD, not commerce. Commerce is changed into beakers, eps, culture, and gold at the end of the turn. Gold is added to your bank at the end of the turn. In the early game, a settled GPr will let you run the slider higher because you have more gold to play around with.

Sorry, but no. The 5 gold allows a higher science slider (not every turn probably, but on average). What this means is the oxford capital is effectively getting to turn 3 or 4 more commerce per turn into beakers rather than into gold. And since there is no better commerce multiplier at that stage of the game than an oxford city, this is advantageous. It's the same deal with running merchant specialists in other cities to get more science. With a cottaged oxford capital, another city running a merchant gives more total converted commerce per turn, and more science than if they ran a scientist.
Actually, the prophet is better than the scientist because somehow I forgot to include the effect of Bureaucracy. With Bureaucracy, you can convert the prophet's gold with the Bureaucracy bonus into beakers through the science slider. With scientists, you can't because specialist beakers don't get the Bureaucracy bonus.

 

[TheAmazingYant]

Thank you for starting this post. I've been having a little bit of trouble beating Noble, myself. I'm especially interested in learning how to use religion and diplomacy to my advantage, since I've never really figured out how to do either things very well.

Question: I noticed in a couple screenshots that you are running a deficit with your science spending set to 100%. Is there a specific reason for that?

 

[glcm1961]

I have a comment and a question:

First of all, thank you! I need this thread in the worst way and it couldn't have come at a better time. I appreciate the effort it must take for you to do this as it must be fairly time consuming and I am sure there are multitudes of novice Civ IV players out there who will benefit greatly from your effort.

Now my question: You started your second city a long way from your capitol. Is that usually a good idea? I thought by having cities far apart you suffered culturally and economically. Any comments regarding this strategy will be welcome. (I understand the reason you did it in this case, but is that typical?)

Thank you once again.

 

[Orion071]

ROUND 2 - (2225 BC - 575 BC)

Let's not forget everyone, we're only at 2225 BC. As far as I know, Joao and Ragnar still only have 1 city. I have a Warrior hanging around each one to make sure. It's far to early to worry about one of them attacking me yet. It's also a bit too early to worry about converting Ragnar to Hinduism. I'd either need Meditation for a Monestary or Monotheism for Organized Religion. I'll get to it in due time.

Turn 72: With the whip complete in Delhi, I switch to Stonehenge. I'll speed it along with a couple of chops. My uber-Warrior sees that Joao's capital has 3 Clams and Cows in the BFC. GP Farm, indeed.

Turn 73: Joao builds a city by the Horses to his SE. He has a Worker building a Pasture. That would be slightly worrisome for an Axe rush, but Chariots don't do that much to Swordsmen. My other Warrior circling Ragnar sees that he has Copper in his BFC and it's mined already. Now THAT could be trouble.

Turn 76: Bad luck for me because Stonehenge is built in a far away land. I thought that was a bit late for it, but it was worth a shot. Delhi will switch to a Warrior because it doesn't have a garrison right now.

Turn 79: Pestilance hits my Pig pasture, destroying it. I immediately move my Workers to replace it.

Turn 81: Writing is in along with my Warrior. I go and sign Open Borders with both Joao and Ragnar. Open Borders is a nice way to get an early relations boost. Plus it will allow me to scout out their territory and see their defenses. It's a good idea to Open Borders with everyone you can as soon as you can. The only time I wouldn't do it is if I'm worried about the AI going through my territory and settling areas I'm blocking off for my later use. Say I settled Pink and Blue dots, completely cutting Ragnar off from the rest of the continent (it wouldn't, but let's pretend). I may decline Open Borders with him, pinning him in his tiny little area. Of course, most AI's in this situation would build a stack of Axes and bust out, but that's the risk you take with that tactic.

Delhi switches to a Barracks and I start on Iron Working.

Turn 82: I move into Joao's territory and see a Worker mining a Plains tile. The only reason that Joao would be mining a Plains tile is if there's Iron there and I can't see it. So not only do I have no metal right now, but both of my opponents have it in their capital's BFC! Ouch. On the plus side, his capital has a single Archer in it and a Settler waiting for an escort. Not much defense there yet.

Turn 86: Well this is interesting. It turns out that there is more to this island past Ragnar! I move through his territory and meet Tokogawa.

(Whoops! lost the screenshot)

And Japan has Axes already too! Fortunately, he won't Open Borders with Ragnar and Ragnar completely blocks the small land bridge to the rest on the continent. My Warrior moves through to see what else is out there.

Turn 89: Tokogawa coverts to Judiasm (it was founded a few turns earlier and not by him). That means the Jewish founder must be pretty close by too. This just got a whole lot more interesting.

Turn 90: Ragnar founds a city right next to Kyoto. Normally this would cause a lot of tension between the two, but the AI's hidden "warmonger's respect" means that they're Pleased with each other still. I need to hasten Ragnar's conversion to Hinduism so I can sow some distrust between them.

Turn 92: Japan's capital is blocking off the land bridge to the rest of the continent so I can't meet the Jewish founder. I'm going to hug the coast and see if I can see one of their ships or something.

Turn 95: The Barracks are in. My Workers have hooked up the Horses so I can make some Chariots. First I'm going to start a Settler so I can immediate settle by any Iron around.

Turn 97: Iron Working is in and... it's all the way in Blue dot's BFC. That's much farther away than I would have liked, but I have to take it. Also, it's in the second ring, so I have to build a Monument and wait for the border to expand. That sucks. This calls for a change in plans. I need to get Montheism and Organized Religion so I can easily spread Hinduism around. Masonry is required first. I whip a Settler in Delhi and work on some Chariots.

Turn 99: Bombay grows to size 2, so I start on a Monument and whip it the next turn. It needs its borders popped so I can use the Cows and second Gold.

Turn 101: IBT, I see this screen:



So from this I can deduce that maybe only 1 other civ has 3 cities yet. I'm about to get my third, so I'm in good shape there.

Turn 102: Masonry is in, and so is my first Chariot. I send him down to reinforce Blue dot. Delhi works on a second Chariot. Monotheism is up next.

Turn 103: Vijay is founded. Let's take a look:



As you can see it has 4 nice resouces, but none of them in the first ring. A monument is a high priority. I'll work the best hammer tile available to get it done quickly. I'll also send my Workers down there to hook up everything when its ready.

Also, you can see that at -5gpt, I'll need to turn down the science slider soon. I'll wait until after Monotheism.

Turn 105: A second Chariot is complete. I switch to a Library, which I'll quickly whip. Delhi is producing 20 beakers a turn, so the Library is worth +5 beakers. Not too bad.

Turn 109: Montheism is in and I switch to Organized Religion. Next will be Priesthood for Temple and maybe the Oracle (although I doubt it).

Turn 113: Priesthood is in. Next will be Alphabet. I need to know how much the others know. I complete another Chariot so now all 3 cities have a Chariot defending. Delhi is at its max happiness due to an earlier whip, so I cease growth by working mines and other high-hammer tiles. I want to see if I can get the Oracle.

Turn 118: The Monument is done in Vijay. Next will be a Granary. Bombay's borders just popped, so its Worker can now Pasture the Cows. It's working on 2 floodplains cottages while slow building a Granary. I should be able to whip it in a turn or two.

Turn 120: Three forest chops later and...



Let the debate begin! I'm taking Metal Casting for 3 reasons: 1) It's the most expensive one I can get besides Theology 2) Forges are a nice increase in hammers 3) Forges will multiply the happiness of my Gold.

Code of Laws is still a high priority - most likely right after Alphabet. Monarchy is a good choice for higher levels with a low hapiness cap, but we're OK there for right now. Theology and Christianity might be the choice for a Cultural win, but I don't think that's an option in this game.

Next for Delhi will be a couple of Hindu Missionaries - one for Vijay and one for Ragnar. I need to get him converted before he gets hungry and has me for a snack.

Turn 127: Finally, the founder of Judaism is revealed:



Well, that's a surprise. I don't have a lot of experience with Stalin, so I don't know what to think right now. Obviously he doesn't like our different religions, but he's still willing to Open Borders. Both Missionaries are on their way. I start a Hindu Temple in Delhi. After 1 turn, I can whip it. I want the Temple so I can run a Priest specialist. I want to hurry the birth of my Great Prophet so I can profit from the Hindu Shrine.

Turn 128: Another unexpected twist:



Hinduism spreads naturally to Joao and he converts. He has a 4-city empire closely packed in the jungle. He didn't pick very good sites. All of the jungle is hard for him to clear. I'm actually not happy about this development. This means I'll get a "You attacked my friend" demerit from Ragnar when I finally attack Joao. Oh, well.

Turn 131: Both Missionaries do their job. Vijay pops its borders and Ragnar converts to Hinduism. I run a Priest in Delhi. The Great prophet is expected in 10 turns. I'll rush that a bit more with a few Scientists as well. This shortens the time to 4 turns. Running 2 Scientists for 4 turns won't give me much of a chance of a Great Scientist. This article explains how Great People are generated. Running 2 Scientist for 4 turns won't really affect the 11 turns I've been getting only Prophet points. I'll have roughly an 8% chance of a GS.

Turn 132: Alphabet is in. Let's look at the tech screen:



Not too bad. No one else has Alphabet or Metal Casting yet. Toku and Joao don't even have Mysticism yet, so they have none of the religious techs. Stalin has Math, and everyone else has Archery, Fishing and most likely Sailing. Honestly, I was expecting worse.

Unfortunately, only Joao will trade with me. Ragnar is a jerk, and will only trade is Pleased (not sure?) or even Friendly. Even at +4 relations, he's only Cautious due to the fact that he's Aggressive and I'm a pacifist. Warmonger's respect works against me in this case.

I want Ragnar happy with me, so I gift him Masonry and Polytheism in an attempt to boost relations. No dice. I gift Joao Mysticism for a different reason. I don't want to trade away Alphabet or Metal Casting, so I need to unlock my other techs to trade him.

Turn 133: Here's my first tech trade:



Normally, I don't trade for such small techs. Every Civ has a number of techs they will trade you before saying "We Fear You Are Becoming To Advanced" or WFYABTA for short. This number isn't the techs you get from him, it's the number of techs you get in trade from ANYONE. The number is different for everyone, so most people don't like to waste them on garbage techs you can research in a few turns anyway. I'm making the trade for a couple of reasons - 1) I really want Sailing so I need Fishing first 2) These guys don't have a lot for me to trade for anyway.

Of course everybody has Sailing already. I have to wait until next turn to trade for it.

Also, I fire my Scientists because they're giving me a much higher % chance for a GS than I thought. I guess I need to read that article again. Well, this will only delay the Prophet for a couple more turns.

Turn 134: I trade Monotheism to Joao in exchange for Sailing. I get a small bump in science due to some new foreign trade routes.

Turn 137: The expected Prophet arrives.



The Shrine will give me 4 gpt right away and hopefully a lot more in the future. Plus it increases the chance of Hinduism spreading to more cities. A win/win all around.

Bombay reaches size 4 so I whip the Library it's building. The culture will be nice to fight off Joao's capital.

I gift Priesthood to Ragnar. This finally bumps him up to Pleased status. I think I'm pretty safe from him for now. He has 2 Jewish civs on his doorstep that don't like him. He'll target them before he targets me. Stalin and Tokugawa can't attack me without going through Ragnar. Good times.

Joao is a bit more troublesome. He's up to five cities and he's starting to move into territory that is rightfully mine. Rather than attack him (he has Iron so he has Swordsmen and Axemen), I think I'll do a burst of expansion myself. Yellow dot will be next since the Gold and floodplains will give me more science potential. Pink dot is still available although Ragnar built a city that will compete with it a bit. Black dot will have to be moved 1NE so it doesn't overlap Joao's newest city and I'll move Teal dot 1E so it doesn't overlap Black dot. Those 7 cities will give me a solid base to attack Joao. By then I should have Catapults, and I may even wait until Macemen to fully commit my troops.

Iron will be hooked up next turn. Vijay is a pure production city that will focus on troops. Delhi and Bombay will produce the Settlers and a few more Workers.

I'm going to stop right here. Here's the save and I'll post a few summary screenshots later tonight.

View attachment Gandhi BC-0575.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[dankok8]

Well played until now. BTW I really think it is a good idea to help people on this forum get the hang of the game. I think success is entirely dependent on the way the game is approached, not some supernatural powers.

 

[OneBinary]

Is there a way I can step backwards in the game and 'watch' the game being played rather than trying to play through the game exactly the same way Orion071 did?