ORSH: Operation Rome Sweet Home | Early Initiation

[Civanator]

Colonel Civanator walks into the great hall where many of the citizens have gathered to hear his speech. He walks up the steps where the Shogun is seated, alongside him General Provolution. He proceeds to hang maps for everyone to see, and then he begins.

I have been starting on a plan to destroy or severely crush our neighbors, the Romans. They might be hooking up Iron soon, so we have to build up now.

The basis of this plan relies upon our ability to hook up our horses ASAP. Horsemen are a vital part to this plan. Building our horsemen now to prepare for upgrades would greatly improve the probability of this plan to succeed. The faster we get to Chivalry before they get to Feudalism the better it will be for us.

I have made a quick map just over viewing a proposed plan of attack.



Group I would need to consist of 7-10 Samurai, because they will be attacking a town, or a walled town on a hill. These are the odds of winning for an attack if it is a City or Walled Town:

Spearmen | Regular | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]44.5% - 60% - 72.3%[/center]
Spearmen | Veteran | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]29% - 43.6% -  57.1%[/center]
Legion | Regular | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]27.1% - 39.9% - 51.9%[/center]
Legion | Veteran | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]14.3% - 23.8% - 34.2%[/center]
Pikeman| Regular | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]27.1% - 39.9% - 51.9%[/center]
Pikeman | Veteran | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]14.3% - 23.8% - 34.2%[/center]

Group II would need to consist of 12-20 Samurai because they will be driving straight for the capital if all goes well. Their odds of winning are (In Antium):

Spearmen | Regular | Fortified | Plains | Walled Town/City:[center]53.6% - 69.2% - 80.4%[/center]
Spearmen | Veteran | Fortified | Plains | Walled Town/City:[center]38.1% - 54.3% - 67.9%[/center]
Legion | Regular | Fortified | Plains | Walled Town/City:[center]35% - 49.4% - 62%[/center]
Legion | Veteran | Fortified | Plains | Walled Town/City:[center]20.7% - 32.8% - 45.1%[/center]
Pikeman | Regular | Fortified | Plains | Walled Town/City:[center]35% - 49.4% - 62%[/center]
Pikeman | Veteran | Fortified | Plains | Walled Town/City:[center]20.7% - 32.8% - 45.1%[/center]

Group III would need to consist of 7-10 Samurai because they are attacking Pompeii, which is on a hill. So their odds of winning are the same as in Neapolis.

Spearmen | Regular | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]44.5% - 60% - 72.3%[/center]
Spearmen | Veteran | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]29% - 43.6% -  57.1%[/center]
Legion | Regular | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]27.1% - 39.9% - 51.9%[/center]
Legion | Veteran | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]14.3% - 23.8% - 34.2%[/center]
Pikeman| Regular | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]27.1% - 39.9% - 51.9%[/center]
Pikeman | Veteran | Fortified | Hill | Walled Town/City:[center]14.3% - 23.8% - 34.2%[/center]

Key: 14.3% - 23.8% - 34.2% are the odds of (respectively) a Regular, Veteran, or Elite Samurai winning against the said unit.

Looking at our odds of winning against a Legion or Pikeman, you may think this may not work. That is why we must prohibit them from connecting their iron! This map here shows how we can block their means of a road effectively:



Green Dots: These are where we absolutely need some type of unit to block a road. This is can be a vital part to success.
Black Dots: These are where we can put units, but we have time to get to them as it takes longer to build a road there.
Dark Red Dots: These are where we will have to block if Pompeii's borders expand.
Red Dots: These units may not be needed even if the borders of Pompeii expand, but they would help just in case.

This is a critical part to determining our success, or failure.

Note: I could not include the possibility of catapults in our winning percentages. Catapults would help for the beginning assault

Another Note: I am refining this proposal as you reply so bear with this rough draft.

Any questions or suggestions?

 

[Civman2004]

Civanator - a few comments intended to be helpful...

My suggestion of using one of our current settlers to build a city 1NW of the Iron would eliminate the need to block them - they wouldn't have it in the first place!

I believe 3 groups is unnecessary. Why not send the two smaller groups to Pompeii and Neapolis, and then have them converge on Rome? (ie groups I and III would merge to become group II). Any assaults after Rome will only need 1 army group as there will be no need to split up.

I think you have slightly overestimated the size of the force required. Usually with 5-6 swordsmen I can take decent sized cities (on grassland) with 2 spearmen defenders. I would imagine 5 Samurai (better than swordsmen) for group I and 6 for group III would be plenty - even if we lost a few that would still leave 8 or so for the assault on Rome, which should be enough, assuming they don't have legions or pikemen.

You may have already thought of this, but if we sent a couple of spearmen along for the ride, we wouldn't have to leave samurai behind to defend. Also, we would probably want to garrison a fair number of units in Rome until we built temple/library there.

 

[Civanator]

Actually Civman, I thought of everything you just said after I posted the Proposal.

This proposal is actually a "Quick Strike." We go in and take what we were looking for in 2-4 turns. In this case, if everything goes right, we should be marching through the streets of Rome in 3 turns from the attack.

I chose 3 groups because this is going to be a simultaneous attack, so we will capture Neapolis, Antium and Pompeii in the first attack, and then Rome two turns later.

The figures of Samurai are from 7-10 in Pompeii and Neapolis because they are on hills, which gives the defenders a significant chance to be successful and repel the attack; and assume I won't even get the minimal of 7.

I gave the figure of 12-20 for the Antium to Rome campaign because if we had to wait for Group I that would give Rome an extra 2 turns to get an extra unit or two in there. I would like a minimal of 15 actually so I can leave behind a Samurai in Antium and dash straight for Rome.

Settling 1 tile NW of the Iron is a horrible idea! It would cripple our cities, but if we take Pompeii, it is in a prime location with Odawara, and it has silks.

 

[Civman2004]

By the time we've built up 24 (minimum) Samurai, not to mention the 9 units (probably Warriors) we'll need to guard against the road connection, I believe it would be a lot more efficient to build a city next to the Iron. We can always use that city to build a settler (and disband) when we capture Pompeii later on.

Is there any reason why we want to do this in 3 turns when 10 would suffice, and would mean we needed fewer units? I wonder if the slower option is a more efficient use of resources?

 

[Sir Donald III]

While I approve of the forward thinking, I personally think that the Iriquois Problem would likely alter the Calculus of

As for the plan stated, I think that Task Force I, once it completes its mission at Neapolis, should become the core of Task Force II. Being Militaristic, we should get a promotion or two in hard fought battles. (I'm not saying there shouldn't be a TF II, just that we should expect a few people from TF I to participate in TF II. Probably 2-3 Samurai.


On the other hand... once Rome Sweet Home is over, we might want to go further... To avenge the trouble the Iriquois might make in the near future.

 

[invy]

This is large and expensive attacking force. If we can get it in time I will vote for this attacking plan when the time comes.
But untill we build so many units Rome will have Pikemen and Legionary. To add I don't like idea of Iron city :/. Even if we build it it will likely flip to Rome.

We could start building our army earlier and 1 turn before Romans connect Iron we should attack them. Neapolis and Pompeii will be small cities and probably with no more than 2 spearman defenders. 2 groups of 4 Samurai will take those two cities in a turn or two maximal. Than we can send these II groups to Rome.
Problem is that we can't know that we will have Chivalry when Rome connects Iron. This could be plan B .

Ofcourse i like better large invasion force, but i am not sure we can build so many units in needed time.

Anyway we have more cities and better UU. Samurai will outnumber and crush Roman Legions if they oppose.

 

[snipelfritz]

Colonal Civanator,

I know you have stated that this is a "Quick Strike", but have you thought of the possibility of a Roman counter attack? For example if Group 2 is attacked on their way to Rome.

Basically question is, Have you factored in the possibility of a counter attack?

 

[Civanator]

I chose 3 turns because we don't want Rome launching a counter-attack if we took our time.

We don't have to start the build up rigth at this moment, but starting soon would help. Also, we can use just 1 unit to sit on the Iron for a while so they can't connect it.

I have given Group II a large number because I was thinking about the counter-attack that could com from Rome. That is why I proposed a simultaneous attack so they don't have the chance to counter. But if we cut off their Iron early, they won't have much to Counter-attack with.

 

[Cyc]

Ah, Rome Sweet Rome...(sorry...) It reminds me of the great city of Gorina. That was its city motto (thanks to RM). Trust me. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Good work, Civanator. You have drawn up effective plans for our expansion East. The total size of the attack force may be a little too large, especially in time and cost, but the presentation and flow of attack is good.

One of our main concerns should be the completion of a road from Immo to Odawara. Regardless of how well we plan this, good transportation routes well be key.

I can see why you want to use Horsemen for an early attack, and that maybe good enough, but remember we have no Barracks as of yet, and Iron will be hooked up soon. I might recommend Warrioors to isolated Pompeii's supply lines, an attack force of 10 Swordsmen gathered outside Antium, and any horsemen produced sent to Neopolis.

Our production capabilities at this time will not allow us to build the size force you call for within the timeframe you ask. We need to play smart ball here. I wouldn't attack without 10 Swordsmen, and would send th Horsemen where we couldn't buil roads. Warriors to the Pompeii area.

But excellent work, Deputy Civanator. A shining example for the rest.

 

[JackA]

We should attck Rome before they have their Legions.

 

[Civanator]

Well the horsemen are to be upgraded when we get Samurai. We are far from Samurai, so a gradual build up will do.

But I was thinking about having Warriors cut any supply lines to be built from Pompeii. But this is still the very early stages of this Operation. We have 8 techs to research before we can get Samurai.

 

[blackheart]

Wow... so many statistic, how did you figure all of them out? I just have one question, why send the Samurai from Odawara straight for Rome? If we immediately capture Rome we would split their empire into 3 parts and shatter their will to fight.

Cyc is right, we can't produce this many units in the timeframe that it will take us to get chivalry. Instead of splitting up our forces I suggest we create one large group and send it towards Rome. We could shift our defense forward to protect Immo and Odawara but if we quickly capture Rome victory will be ours.

 

[Civanator]

Hmm... Interesting. I was thinking of this too. But we would be left open for a turn on the drive straight to Rome. But it is good. I will make a new map showing an idea that popped into my head from what you said.

 

[Nobody]

I have nothing personal against the romans, i mean they there nice enough people good unique unit, nice citys names and there normally strong, i respect them. but they are siting on land that should be ours. there land is better than the zulus or babalon and to get to the iroquois (i hate them so much) you have to go thur the romans anyway. and if our empires were to combine (by force) then we would powerfull enough to have our neighbours respect us. Don't think of it as conqureing a neighbour think of it as a earily merger so both our peoples can grow.

 

[Cyc]

Hey, Nobody's here.... I just wanted to say welcome to Nobody.

 

[Chieftess]

Why are we thinking so far ahead, suggesting waiting for Samurai? We should be connecting our iron for swordsmen, then attack.

Now, there is the question of the Iroquois... Who will attack. (I know this after playing Civ3 for 3 years!)

 

[Cyc]

You don't remember back in DG2, CT? When we had the French parked on one of our Mountains. They didn't declare war. I believe the Egyptians did the same thing.

 

[Nobody]

DG2? Egypt? you mean there were worlds before this one. (i know over former demogames, long time reader, first time poster)

 

[Chieftess]

You don't remember back in DG2, CT? When we had the French parked on one of our Mountains. They didn't declare war. I believe the Egyptians did the same thing.

They were at war with other civs. That's why they were passing through. The Iroquois really have no reason to pass through us, much less fortify without a maginot (sp?) line.

 

[Epimethius]

*sets up picket line in front of office*

No Blood for....Um....
....Well....
.....Hmmm......
No Blood for the Hell of It!